07-07-2012, 06:30 PM | #1 | |
Join Date: Nov 2004
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Wee Celestials And Other Spinnoffs From Wishlist Thread
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07-07-2012, 11:27 PM | #2 |
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
Except that technically a 3-Force Seraph (entirely possible through very, very botched soul combat) is "bigger" in this sense than a 6-force demonling. Hence why I would have tied it to Fledging rather than size - it's one thing to be a floaty incorporeal thing in the Symphony, quite another to be playing one of its instruments (angels) or vuvuzela-ing your own off-key tune (demons).
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07-08-2012, 08:50 PM | #3 | |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
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Relievers and Imps don't get booted upstairs automatically because they don't have any corporeal forces (Making stuff up). They are not expected to interact with the Symphony so they aren't given anything to interact with the Symphony...and so the Symphony can safely ignore them. (La la la! You aren't here!) This limits what they can do but as observers and manipulators of things like dreams etc, they can still have low key subtle influence (Yes, I know this ignores their diaphragm despoiling duties, but it's a work in progress) Theory 2: There is a threshold on corp forces which causes them to be booted upstairs. One corp and they are okay, though uncomfortable. More then that (i.e. into PC rang) and they need a deep Reality Suit called a vessel. Okay, if you don't like that one, how about this Theory Three: Celestial Imps and Relievers can only be found in tethers. The emanations of Heaven/Hell allow them to bob along on the fringe of reality with no problem. Any of them who want to travel need a vessel. This means that the tether will have dozens of 'helpers' but outside of it's influence, no. This also means that a Prince/Arch has a choice of spending a few hundred Essence to put a low grade moron of a spirit on the Earth, something they are not normally inclined to do... (those granted to the PCs are exceptions...and they are responsible for the results) None of this is fully canon but explains a few things with a rules tweak or two.
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07-08-2012, 09:14 PM | #4 | |
Petitioner: Word of IN Filk
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Longmont, CO
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
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In this case, there appears to be a Symphonic "Trace" that only comes into effect at maturity/Fledging. Maybe fledging involves a certain Symphonic theme that gets tied up in the new angel/demon's very being?
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“It's not railroading if you offer the PCs tickets and they stampede to the box office, waving their money. Metaphorically speaking” --Elizabeth McCoy, In Nomine Line Editor Author: "What Doesn't Kill Me Makes Me Stronger" |
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07-09-2012, 08:13 AM | #5 | |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
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Curtis Says: Remember to take your Shots. And use a tight grouping. |
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07-09-2012, 08:18 AM | #6 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
I thought it was implied strongly that angels/demons could 'grow' their own forces with experience in life. Certainly no DP or even AA would 'grow' an underling into a threat to their existance (well, MAYBE an AA...) Thus, where do new DPs come from?
In fact, that was part of the point break: a Superior could give you a nice custom fit ultra efficient force for a 'mere' 10 CPs. If you 'grew your own' by upping each characteristic enough to grow, then you needed to pay 12. We've had this discussion before.
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07-09-2012, 02:10 PM | #7 | |||
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
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For another, while it's doubtless uncommon, I've personally witnessed an Elohite of Faith statted with 1 Corporeal Force, and personally played a Balseraph on a redemption quest who lost all his Corporeal Forces to protecting other celestials in soul combat. If I'm reading you right, you are advocating that the trace should solely notice Corporeal Forces, rather than total Forces or the presence of a Resonance - and thus by such logic, neither of these PCs would have a problem going around without a Vessel. Quote:
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I don't like the points break because of what it encourages people to do in-game with their XP, saving it up and thereby being less capable and thereby earning themselves less screen time until they get the whole 10, not for any kind of in character reason (because XP is an entirely OOC mechanic, your character is unable to ever know they have unspent XP), but because it saves them 2 XP compared to getting a Force the slow way. |
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07-09-2012, 07:45 PM | #8 | ||
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
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You do raise a good point regarding the odd 'full sized' Celestial who is Imp 'sized' corporeally. I hadn't considered that and I shall think about it more. I would rule that the crippled Celestial who lost all his/her corporeal forces could NOT manifest on Earth at all until they recovered at least one Corporeal force. What is a Corporeal Force for if not to manipulate the reality of the Corporeal Realm? There are no 'hooks' for a vessel to plug into a vessel (to use a metaphor). 0 STR and 0 DEX means something. Quote:
But the screen time argument is silly in two ways. I, as a PC, can save XP till the cows come home and unless the DP/AA (GM) decides I can get a force, I cannot get a force, at least with the point break, the same way I can't count on distinctions, attunements, Songs or rites being a 'right'. Additionally, you seem to be arguing against character savings per se rather then simply forces. What if I was saving my CPs for a really good magic sword or other artifact? Is my quest to get the power/influence/materials for the Magic Wonkus REALLY keeping me from 'screen time' or is it your personal foible that you'd just as soon have the players spend their CPs as soon as they get it?
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Curtis Says: Remember to take your Shots. And use a tight grouping. |
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07-10-2012, 02:52 AM | #9 | |||||
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Re: My In Nomine wishlist
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Buried in the fluff text - well, at the start of a paragraph, but still easy to miss if you're skipping to mechanics - is the line that imps, gremlins, and relievers are only sent with "a specific purpose" and "must perform their duty to maintain their connection to the corporeal realm". As this is not something that Resonance-capable beings have, it could be expanded on as being a strong enough link to prevent celestials being kicked upstairs. Quote:
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It's worth noting, the actual rules say nothing about your Superior even having involvement in you buying a whole Force for 10 points - only that, for some reason, you can get it cheaper if you save up points OOC rather than building up power IC. What do you think is added by the difference in cost, that is worth preserving despite the fact it encourages fine detail accountancy? Why should XP, an entirely OOC resource, be able to be discounted by strictly defined IC actions? Last edited by Omegonthesane; 07-10-2012 at 02:59 AM. |
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07-12-2012, 08:51 AM | #10 |
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Birthplace of the Worst Pizza on the Planet
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Re: Wee Celestials And Other Spinnoffs From Wishlist Thread
This is the least of the rules changes I would suggest. I'm not sure I fully understand what you mean by your explanation of the 'trigger' of fledging brings about, unless you mean that initially being given a vessl 'sensitizes' the Symphony to the fact that, yes, there is an unnatural being here much like an infection needs to be tagged by T cells.*
Your discussion of Celestial Seneschals reinforces my third theory of Widdle guys. I personally like the dual system of Force gathering. Case in point Furfur. Even assuming exemplary service, would Belial keep adding Forces to an overly ambitious Servitor? Would another DP waste a force on a maybe like Furfur? More importantly, would someone like Furfur trust another DP to jigger with his innards?+ With this dual method, it allows both quick/obvious and slow/sneaky advancement. Plus it helps a player who has some rather uncomfortable bits of discord hidden while not limiting him much in advancing his power except for a few CPs. ("Um...Reginald, why exactly do you have this murderous discord...?") I see it as making things more flexible. Your mileage may vary. *This raises a bunch of other questions. Would an infant angel grown up disturb they Symphony. If Superiors gave 'normal bodies' to Celestials, would the Symphony recognize that fact? (I am partial to this in part because I envisioned the downfall of the Grigori to their being given 'normal' non sterile and less biochemically controllable bodies initially). +In one of my games, a vessel 'gifted' by Fleurity to a Free Lilim came with a prepackaged Discord of Heroin Addiction...just to keep her in the fold so to speak. Since she didn't distinctly require a 'clean' vessel as payment, well...life is rough for the Free.
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