Gurps Vehicles

[David L Pulver]

Originally Posted by dataweaver

I just hope that you've avoided reinventing the wheel. For instance, Vehicles had some rather elaborate rules for determining how much motive power the horses in a horse-and-buggy rig generate; meanwhile, GURPS already includes some perfectly serviceable rules for determining how much a horse can pull and how fast it can move while doing so. I've always found the Vehicles take on the horse-and-buggy to have needlessly redundant rules in this regard; I'm hoping that the VDS will handle it as an expansion of the existing "pulling encumbrance" rules, rather than effectively trying to reinvent those rules.

I follow your point and did give it considerable thought. Indeed, I started with that assumption, only to find it was a lot harder than it looked, especially after I saw an (early draft) of the published stats of such vehicles. Essentially, to make the Low Tech stats come out, I would have to say "the Basic Set rules are wrong - here are new rules for encumbrance and pulling loads." BS works great for bipeds, wheel barrows, and sledges, but it really isn't designed for wheeled vehicles, and trying to shoe-horn it would involve creating a whole parallel system of modifiers that only apply to ST-based animal-towed vehicles, then explaining why they supercede the Basic Set's numbers.

And redundancy is thus also an issue the other way. Since the chariot does not exist in isolation: the motive power, speed, drag, streamlining, and so on rules are used for, say, a car with an engine, it's a bit odd to toss them out and say that (for example) the tire modifiers or suspension bonuses or streamlining no longer matter when an animal is providing the propulsion.

Now, it's obviously more complex. But I'm not worried about that as such: anyone who wants a simple chariot, wagon, etc. has only to turn to Low Tech, which will give you your craft and lots of rules on customizing and modding it.

LT also raised another issue: the chariots and so on in LT are statted out as if they are vehicles rather than as adjuncts to the animal rules and ST/Lifting rules: as such it's easier to treat them as such game mechanically, i.e., converting the animal's ST and Move stats into power. This is especially so when dealing with teams of animals; if not you're going to be doing math anyway as you add up base lifts and so on.

In short: Tried it the way you suggest - thought it would work -- but it just didn't work as well.

[cosmicfish]

Out of curiosity, did you add or change anything for reliability? If I remember correctly, the original used reliability only in regards to the entire vehicle, and then it was offered only with respect to overall cost. This made cheap vehicles seem sturdy, and expensive vehicles unreliable, with no regards to individual components.

Also, did you add any more on crewing vehicles?

[hal]

When GURPS VDS comes out, I'll pick it up pronto. When the computerized version of VDS comes out, I'll pick that up pronto as well.

Someday, someone will actively come up with a set of rules for castle building and seige weapons, and I'll pick that up as well ;)

Until then, it is C&S 1st and second editions for the castle building and damage to walls during seiges - and GURPS for everything else.

[dataweaver]

Bear in mind that the VDS isn't finished yet. Very nearly so, apparently; but not quite done. While I'm grateful for what David Pulver has seen fit to say about it thus far, it strikes me as premature to be asking for details.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by David L Pulver

(VDS takes a while since it's a huge project, taking thousands of man hours; it earns me no money at all while I work on it, so I have to alternate working on occasional other books and articles in the mean time to support myself.)

Just made my day with this news, and FWIW all your hard work is very much appreciated on this. GURPS is one of the few systems where this kind of project gets the attention it deserves, and hopefully the appreciation as well.

Not only would I buy this the day it becomes available, I'd sign up for a ransom as well.

Now as much as I prefer real books I can also see why this project is tailor made for PDFs, especially for add ons and options. For me GURPS is all about the options.

[Kissamies]

It's not that long ago that I was hyped over Low-Tech and now you just have to dangle a new thing in front of my nose.

I MUST HAVE IT!!!

[zorg]

Originally Posted by cosmicfish

GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME GIMME!!!!!!!!

A man after midnight? That might be another product, yet to be announced.

I hugely loved the old Vehicles, amnd spent absurd amounts of time building stuff with it. I only realized rather late that I never, ever used anything I so designed. ;)

[MrBackman]

<snip>GURPS is one of the few systems where this kind of project gets the attention it deserves, and hopefully the appreciation as well.<snip>

<snip>it earns me no money at all while I work on it.<snip>

If SJG would give VDS the attention it deserves maybe they should pay the man working on it, neh?

To those who are afraid of VDS superseding regular GURPS rules; VDS would be entirely optional as stated and that means that it could include rules for horses as motive powerplants and other crunchy stuff. VDS should work, and be based on real world physics and engineering without ahaving to worry about fitting more or less clunky roleplaying rules. Vehicles DESIGNED by VDS should obviously generate the stats needed for gaming but it should never have to work the other way.

In My Humble Opinion of course.

[Kage2020]

Originally Posted by hal

Someday, someone will actively come up with a set of rules for castle building and seige weapons, and I'll pick that up as well ;)

Until then, it is C&S 1st and second editions for the castle building and damage to walls during seiges - and GURPS for everything else.

Wasn't there a fan-produced GURPS Architecture out there that included this type of information? It's been a long time since I looked at that document so I'm probably barking up the wrong tree, but just thought that I would mention.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by Kage2020

Wasn't there a fan-produced GURPS Architecture out there that included this type of information?

Out of date, overelaborate, and missing material or incorrect in a few areas. The architecture rules in LTC3 will be easier to deal with.