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Old 01-07-2014, 07:34 PM   #41
Agent
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
AOA allows only forward movement, correct. However, GURPS defines forward movement as "A "forward" move is a move into one of your front hexes. If you go straight ahead, your facing will not change; otherwise it will change by one hex-side: you must turn to gace the hex as you enter it. Thus you can change direction while moving "forward".

Check out the diagram at the bottom of page 386; this a legal movement for AOA.
It doesn't have to change your facing. You can 'sidestep' into a forward hex, as explained on the next page, which is also explicitly mentioned to be possible during AOA.

What isn't explicitly mentioned to be possible during AOA's move is changing facing.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:51 PM   #42
corwyn
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Agent View Post
It doesn't have to change your facing. You can 'sidestep' into a forward hex, as explained on the next page, which is also explicitly mentioned to be possible during AOA.

What isn't explicitly mentioned to be possible during AOA's move is changing facing.
Yes, it does.

AOA allows Forward Movement (not just through sidestepping)
Forward Movement allows moving into front right/left hexes
movement into front right/left hexes requires turning to face the hex.

Tell me which, if any, of the above is not explicitly stated in the rules.

AOA also happens to allow sidestepping in addition to the above because it is also considered forward movement.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:01 PM   #43
Agent
 
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

It's indicated by omission on my first quote. What does it mean, other than that you can change facing during the move of the listed maneuvers, but cannot during the move of what isn't listed?

Is there errata? Does 'change facing' not equate to changing facing during 'forward movement'?

The paragraph needs changing if the rules are otherwise.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:56 PM   #44
corwyn
 
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

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Originally Posted by Agent View Post
It's indicated by omission on my first quote. What does it mean, other than that you can change facing during the move of the listed maneuvers, but cannot during the move of what isn't listed?

Is there errata? Does 'change facing' not equate to changing facing during 'forward movement'?

The paragraph needs changing if the rules are otherwise.
The only thing I see in your first quote is "You may not change facing at the end of your move".

That refers to Facing changes and movement on page 387. That gives a free facing change at the end of your move costing no movement points. It also allows a hex change at the beginning of your turn. Neither are allowed in AOA because they aren't normal forward movement. I don't see how this forbids the normal facing change in forward movement.
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Old 01-07-2014, 11:01 PM   #45
Agent
 
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

Quote:
Originally Posted by corwyn View Post
The only thing I see in your first quote is "You may not change facing at the end of your move".

That refers to Facing changes and movement on page 387. That gives a free facing change at the end of your move costing no movement points. It also allows a hex change at the beginning of your turn. Neither are allowed in AOA because they aren't normal forward movement. I don't see how this forbids the normal facing change in forward movement.
I mean:

Quote:
You may also change facing before
or during your movement on a Move,
Move and Attack, or All-Out Defense
(Increased Dodge) maneuver, but this
costs movement points.
Bolded. The Facing Change of forward movement during the movement of AOA would be a Facing Change, no?

Here's some bit of circumstantial evidence, if you will, more-so seeming to indicate your assertion: Kromm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kromm View Post
The crucial thing to note here is that when you move, forward movement requires you to turn to face the hex you're entering. All-Out Attack demands forward movement. Ergo, in your example, the chap doing the All-Out Attack is moving in such a way that his target is always in his own side hex. This means he's forced to do a Wild Swing to hit; see p. B388-389 for the ramifications. The short version is that he'll likely miss, which ends up hosing him far more than his opponent even accounting for his target's reduced defenses for being hit from the side/via runaround.
Although I dunno that the example isn't entirely true as an AOA can actually sidestep in the situation...but anyway. He's indicating Forward Movement, and the consequent turning to face the hex, via AOA.

So I guess, going back to my quote from Campaigns and considering from this perspective, it is specifically referring to facing changes without actually moving which is prohibited and why AOA would have to run in the strange little half-circle instead of turning around and running.

I had played that AOA was basically stuck with requiring the 2 pt move diagonal, if not completely straight ahead, and keeping facing to prevent the weird circle. Not really a huge difference for most relatively low-Move uses, ultimately...
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Old 01-08-2014, 06:33 AM   #46
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Default Re: Wait Maneuver and Multiple Scenarios

Agent, I think you've got it now - at least what I was getting at. It's the extra facing changes without movement, costing movement points, that are forbidden.

And yeah, for low moves it's not that big a deal. But restricting it to strictly straight ahead vastly reduces the utility of AOA, more than intended, IMO.
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