[Martial Arts] Defensive grips and attacks with unbalanced parries.

[Kalminos]

So, a few weapons in martial arts are referred to being often used or optimized for defensive grips- these weapons are like halberds, and tetsubos. They have unbalanced parries, and cannot parry after swinging attacks.

The problem is being in a defensive grip does very little for them, unlike defensive attacks.

While both defensive attacks and the grip give a +1 to parry with the weapon and a -2 or -1 per die to damage, Only defensive attacks offer the option to eschew this +1 for the ability to parry regardless. This seems like a editing error where this was left out of the defensive grip description for some reason.

Does anyone else have insight on this topic?

[Tomsdad]

I'm not quite sure about the reference "optimized for defensive grips"?

I can't seem to find it in Martial Arts (doing a word search)


There's an optional rule on page 124 regarding Two handed weapons of at least 2 yards length getting a bonus against multiple parries and duel weapon parries


Defensive grip benifts a duelling halbard as much as anything else. You can stab with it's spike at Thr +3 imp without the 0U and get +1 parry to the front

[Kalminos]

One example as I listed is the tetsubo, and the other was the Pollaxe, not the Halberd as I went back to read it again. these decriptions are in low-tech, not Martial arts. but they directly reference Martial Arts.

[aesir23]

I have thought a lot about a house rule that treats Defensive Grip like Defensive Attack with respect to Parry U weapons. It makes sense to me.

[Tomsdad]

Originally Posted by Kalminos

One example as I listed is the tetsubo, and the other was the Pollaxe, not the Halberd as I went back to read it again. these decriptions are in low-tech, not Martial arts. but they directly reference Martial Arts.

Reading the write up of pollaxe being optimised, it really just seems to be saying defensive grip should be an option for this weapon even if the GM doesn't usually use defensive grip in their games.

The tetsubo write up just says the defensive grip is "usually used"

In both cases I think it's more that these weapons were historically generally used in conjunction with defensive grips, not that they get some special bonus particular to them.


From what little I know about pollaxe fighting, reversed grip was also a common practice (which comes with its own trade offs of benefits and disadvantages). Basically a variety of grips were used.

Ultimately the shorter polearm's main benefit is in their versatility.

You can get the two handed weapon defensive bonus as outlined above.

You can go normal strength and get lots of sw damage at 0U.

You can poke with the point and it does as much damage as two handed spear.

You can go defensive attack and still swing cut as well as bastard sword two handed and get your parry.


One option If you want to show a specific optimisation maybe write up a defensive technique that specialises.

[Railstar]

Originally Posted by Kalminos

One example as I listed is the tetsubo, and the other was the Pollaxe, not the Halberd as I went back to read it again. these decriptions are in low-tech, not Martial arts. but they directly reference Martial Arts.

A lot of the styles in Martial Arts highlight that swings were not the primary form of attack with those weapons. Pollaxe fighting says Feints & Defensive Attacks are normal, favours jabbing over powerful blows, reserving the Committed Attack & All-Out Attack (Feint) for when an opponent appeared vulnerable. Polearm Fighting's sidebar suggests the normal attack is a Defensive Attack with the tip (thrust), saving swings for fallen or disarmed foes.

The idea is Defensive Grip + Defensive Attack is +2 Parry (+3 Parry with an added Hilt, Low-Tech Companion 3), allowing you to keep your defences high when jabbing at unprotected foot troops or when using techniques such as Sweep, Hook or Arm Lock & Throw to bring a more heavily equipped foe to the ground so he will be an easy target for the big swing from a normal grip.

The other factor is combined arms tactics. Once teams get involved; you can have one guy doing the role of tripping or disarming or otherwise lowering the defences of the opponent, and the other guy who does the mighty blow through their armour.