Shotguns and RoF... is there a better way?

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by Gigermann

The simple way to think about the "10% of ½D" rule is that, instead of checking to see how many pellets hit at that range, the rule assumes you hit with half of them (DR applying to each one, individually, as usual). I presume it's "half" because "all" would be a little too overpowered.

Almost certainly it's because using half the pellets makes the whole load of shot have roughly the same effect as a slug.

[Phoenix_Dragon]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

Even with a recoil of 1, the odds of hitting anything with the second and third shot are kind of horrible.

Keep in mind that if you fire, say, 6 rounds, but only hit with one, that doesn't mean you hit with the first round and then had five misses. It means you hit with one of those six rounds. That's part of why firing six rounds gave you a +1 to hit. It's not any easier, in any way, for that first round to hit, but it's more likely that you'll hit with some of the rounds. Scoring 3 pellet hits out of a 3x9 blast (Which gives +5 to hit, incidentally, averaging 3 more pellet hits than a 1x9 with its +2) doesn't mean that you necessarily hit with any of the first two blasts; it could have been the final one that finally got any pellets on-target, or you could have clipped it with a couple pellets here and there from each shot.

[sir_pudding]

Note: I've never been skeet shooting, so I might get some of this wrong.
A typical 12 gauge load of #9 Birdshot would give a RoF bonus of +10 for one shell, or +11 for 2-3 shells.
Skeet shooting has no risk to self, no risk to others, and no political or military stake in the outcome for +3.
Typical outdoor range conditions give a +1.
Range and speed are known for +3.
The clay pidgeon is 4" across and round for an SM of -5.
It's traveling at 25 yds/s and the farthest range on the course is 21 yards for a Range/Speed modifier of -8
The shooter is Aiming for a +5 (+3,+1,+1)
The shooter can use a sling to brace for a +1
The shooter is taking Opportunity Fire for a -2.
The shooter is taking an All Out Attack Determined for +1.
Total modifier is +9 to hit.

EDIT: I forgot "no political or military stake in the outcome" for another +1. Fixed.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Note: I've never been skeet shooting, so I might get some of this wrong.
A typical 12 gauge load of #9 Birdshot would give a RoF bonus of +10 for one shell, or +11 for 2-3 shells.
Skeet shooting has no risk to self and no risk to others for +2.
Typical outdoor range conditions give a +1.
Range and speed are known for +3.
The clay pidgeon is 4" across and round for an SM of -5.
It's traveling at 25 yds/s and the farthest range on the course is 21 yards for a Range/Speed modifier of -8
The shooter is Aiming for a +5 (+3,+1,+1)
The shooter can use a sling to brace for a +1
The shooter is taking Opportunity Fire for a -2.
The shooter is taking an All Out Attack Determined for +1.
Total modifier is +8 to hit.

I haven't done a ton of skeet, but I have done trap (where the pigeon shoots out from in front of you, as opposed to shoots from a tower side to side). I think this isn't quite right. I would take away the Aim, which removes the Brace, but I wouldn't charge Opportunity Fire (though this is a fascinating way to game it out). Also, Range and Speed are not known in the sense that snipers need to know it, so I'd take that away too. Thus, the final bonus would be +1 to hit. This comports far more with my experience of being unable to hit the frackin' things unless I get a string of luck going.

One more edit: I could see 1 sec worth of Aim, but that's going to increase range. Trap is a little different, because range is variable--it starts out very close, but gets away from you fast. Regardless, you have no more than 2-3 seconds to fire, and it may not even be that long. Now I want to go trap shooting again...

[Ulzgoroth]

I'm pretty sure, in the case in the OP, the 'boomstick' effect is supposed to do pi++ damage, not pi- damage, which contributes to making it highly destructive.

However, that isn't in the errata that I can see.

[Anthony]

There's probably a better way to handle all high RoF weapons, but it would require an extensive rewrite of a bunch of combat rules, probably so you just fire at a zone and then you use the size of the object relative to the zone to determine if a target within the zone is hit.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by apoc527

I haven't done a ton of skeet, but I have done trap (where the pigeon shoots out from in front of you, as opposed to shoots from a tower side to side). I think this isn't quite right. I would take away the Aim, which removes the Brace, but I wouldn't charge Opportunity Fire (though this is a fascinating way to game it out).

From seeing film of it, I assumed shooters aim at where the targets are going to be flying through.

Also, Range and Speed are not known in the sense that snipers need to know it, so I'd take that away too.

The course is always the same regulation size with clearly delineated stations of set range, yes? And the targets are shot at a constant speed, yes? And are all the same size? I don't see any difference from other "known distance" type courses. I think you'd need to keep the bonus.

Thus, the final bonus would be +1 to hit. This comports far more with my experience of being unable to hit the frackin' things unless I get a string of luck going.

According to the OP it is apparently really really easy and the bonus needs to be big.

[apoc527]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

From seeing film of it, I assumed shooters aim at where the targets are going fly. The course is always the same regulation size with clearly delineated stations of set range, yes? And the targets are shot at a constant speed, yes? And are all the same size? I don't see any difference from other "known distance" type courses. I think you'd need to keep the bonus. According to the OP it is apparently really really easy and the bonus needs to be big.

Skeet and trap are admittedly different. Trap shoots out in an unknown direction from somewhere in front of you when you yell "pull." I have not done skeet shooting...perhaps ever, now that I think about it.

So, this might be true for skeet, but not for trap. Trap is definitely NOT that easy. I've seen a friend miss EVERY SINGLE TRAP out of 10. It's not trivial, but you can also get very good at it relatively quickly.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

From seeing film of it, I assumed shooters aim at where the targets are going to be flying through. .

Aiming is at best Suppression Fire (though you've also mixed Opportunity Fire in there)and not Aimed Fire at an individual target. I'm pretty sure you can't Aim at a target you can't see (especially if that is because the target is not there yet.)

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Aiming is at best Suppression Fire

Maybe. Which would cap effective skill at 16 or 17 (depending on how many shells you shoot).

(though you've also mixed Opportunity Fire in there)

On an Aim and Wait (B390) you take the penalty.

and not Aimed Fire at an individual target. I'm pretty sure you can't Aim at a target you can't see (especially if that is because the target is not there yet.)

You can with an Aim and Wait.

Originally Posted by B390

Exception: If you watch a single hex
(only), you can Aim and Wait. Each
second you wait for a target also
counts as an Aim maneuver, and you
will get the normal bonus for that
amount of aiming when you finally
attack.