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Old 04-17-2019, 12:30 PM   #1
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Hello Folks,
I'm aware of Anthony's work that he did in producing a really NICE pdf containing trade routes as lines from world to world.

I have to say that what he did is something I'd never be able to replicate on my own, and I have to consider it as something pretty amazing myself.

That being said, I can't help but wish that SJGames had taken the time to actively create that same map that Anthony did - but instead, actively list which worlds were worthy of the designation of "Main Route", "Feeder Route", "Minor Route" and "No Route" (or Frontier Route).

The rules for bidding on spot freight market require the knowledge of whether or not the world is on a main route, feeder route, or no route (for a -4,-2,0,+4 modifier to Merchant rolls for bidding on Freight contracts).

Does anyone know if that data exists somewhere, already generated?

When I looked at the files contained at:

http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/maps.html

I find that the lines clutter up the real gems that I desire. It seems that the junction circles for each world denotes whether or not there is a minor route (BTN 8+) with but a small circle, BTN 9+ with a larger cricle, and BTN 10+ with larger yet circles. Worlds without circles are clearly those whose classification would be "No Routes".

So - does that data exist where the world trade routes are already in a file?

My alternative is to go to Travellermap.com and by hand, compile the paths traced from worlds with a BTN 10 - any world touched by the route traversed by these routes automatically gain the "Main Route" designation. Then I have to go through and trace routes for BTN values of 9 or 9.5 - ignore any that are already "Main Routes" and those without a designation gaining the "Feeder Route" status, etc.

I can do it, it is just tedious...

Why am I doing this? If I were a betting man, I think the number of GM's who have ever run GURPS TRAVELLER using the rules in GURPS TRAVELLER FAR TRADER in its bulk - can be counted on one hand and proabably have five digits left to spare.

The number of dice that has to be rolled, for the number of possible freight lots is prohibitively large. So, write an app and have it do the die rolling for you right? ;)

Getting all of the other data off Travellermap.com is easy. What I lack however, is the trade route type.

Anyone know of where that data may exist (if at all)?
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:45 PM   #2
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

I gave travellermap.com my original mapping software (though a newer version than the SJG map) years ago, though they seem to have translated it into python. It still looks like it does what it always did, though, so for example http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/File:Sp...hes_Sector.pdf should give you everything you need (that includes links to how to interpret the file).
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Old 04-17-2019, 12:59 PM   #3
hal
 
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Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Thanks Anthony. I'll read this and see what I can do with it. :)

Much appreciated.
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Old 04-17-2019, 01:07 PM   #4
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Quick question if I might...

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Nroute.c

Is that the source code you used? Could I, assuming I had access to Visual Suite, be able to cut and paste it, then turn that into an executable?

I'm not all too familiar with C, hence the question.
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Old 04-17-2019, 02:04 PM   #5
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
Quick question if I might...

http://wiki.travellerrpg.com/Nroute.c

Is that the source code you used? Could I, assuming I had access to Visual Suite, be able to cut and paste it, then turn that into an executable?

I'm not all too familiar with C, hence the question.
Well, it was built with gcc, but a different compiler will probably work.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:05 PM   #6
hal
 
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Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Ok, I've got the data from the Spinward Marches "routes" entered into my spreadsheet (soon to become an xml file).

Now I'm just a little confused as to which value(s) are to be used for what with respect to GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER. It seems that I have to use the fourth line of data for my purposes of determining the "Trade Route" aspect of the world in question. So, let's start with an actual example from the pdf. Although the PDF doesn't show hex numbers, I've included it here for those who might wish to follow along...

Hex: 1727
B756486-B
Wardn
ImDd 2
78A5

Pop Value is 4
Traveller Tech level is B (GURPS TRAVELLER Tech 9)
Starport B = IV
Its WTN would be 4/2 + 1 (Tech bonus) + .5 (port bonus) or 3.5

3.5 x 2 = 7 - which agrees with the first digit in the fourth item listed above in string "78A5"

8 is the second digit. The map shows two green lines plus an orange line that go through Wardn. Looking at the Key, it says the green line represents a BTN 10 route is going through the nexus. The Yellow line is a BTN 9 line, possibly representing the BTN value of the world itself. Either way, 8 doesn't equal 9, nor does it equal 10. On the other hand, A in hex does denote a 10 - I'm guessing that the third digit is the one I need for determining what kind of "trade" goes through the world in question.

Hex: 1729
C54078A-9
Smoug
ImDd 2
9994

Pop Value is 7
Traveller Tech is 9 - which is also GURPS Traveller Tech 9
Port C = Port III

Final WTN = 3.5 + 1 + 0 or 4.5. When doubled, becomes 9. Matches the first digit of 9994 nicely.

Map shows a red line to Grote, a Yellow Line to Wardn. Red means BTN route value of 8, Yellow is BTN Route value of 9. This matches both the first and second values of 9994.

At this point in time, it looks like the third number of the four digit pairing is what I need.

(for those who wonder, the fourth number of that string represents port size per GURPS TRAVELLER: STARPORTS).

Wardn to Tenalphi shows three green lines plus one yellow at its nexus, and its data is:

A774722-E
Tenalphi
ImDd 0
AAA5

Pop 7, Tech 15 = 12, Port A = V
WTN is 3.5 + 1.5 + 0 or 5. 5 x 2 = 10 (matches the first digit of the string AAA5.

Green Route BTN = 10, which matches both the first and second values of the AAA5 string.

It would seem that I need to use the third character of the string to determine whether the port is a Major Route, Feeder Route, Minor Route, or Frontier Route.

if the Third Digit is less than 8, I assign it Frontier. If it is an 8 or 8.5, it is a Minor Route. If it is a 9 or 9.5, it is a Feeder route. If 10+ it gets treated as a Major Route.

That is my understanding and I just wish to confirm it one way or the other if possible.

By the by, now that I've taken the time to actively add it into the spreadsheet, I could easily enough make that file available to anyone else who might want it. No sense in making anyone else have to do all that hard work again (and again) in case they want to code their own Traveller GM assistant.
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Old 04-18-2019, 06:22 PM   #7
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

The trade map key clarifies the fourth line:
The first character is twice the WTN
The second character is the combined BTN of all trade originating or terminating at the world.
The third character is the combined BTN of all trade passing through the world.
The fourth character is port size (note: some of this stuff is expansion on my original code).
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Old 04-18-2019, 07:48 PM   #8
hal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Buffalo, New York
Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
The trade map key clarifies the fourth line:
The first character is twice the WTN
The second character is the combined BTN of all trade originating or terminating at the world.
The third character is the combined BTN of all trade passing through the world.
The fourth character is port size (note: some of this stuff is expansion on my original code).
So it is the third one that I want. How does one calculate the second value? Is it simply the highest value of the best trade partner, or is it done like the trade routes are, where three of a given type, becomes one of the next level up?
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:10 PM   #9
Anthony
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Berkeley, CA
Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

Quote:
Originally Posted by hal View Post
So it is the third one that I want. How does one calculate the second value?
In the case of the program, it's done by summing up a rather large number of trade partners. Being a computer program, it doesn't have to use some of the simplifications that you'd use when building routes by hand.
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Old 04-28-2019, 09:48 AM   #10
tjoneslo
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vermont
Default Re: Routes and GURPS TRAVELLER: FAR TRADER

https://github.com/makhidkarun/traveller_pyroute

This is the source code for the python version of the code used to generate the data values posted in the Traveller Wiki. I am currently the person actively maintaining this code. I also the head librarian at the wiki.

Anthony's answers to your outstanding questions are all correct.

The current code can (and does) sum the potetntial trade from a few hundred worlds.
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