I need help with ST

[Lameth]

ok, I think I have been doing things wrong for years, and that's scary. I don't think I have been doing lifting strength right and I have been confusing it with encumbrance.

How much can a person lift, such as lifting a person over their head?

A person with a 14 ST, what is the max they can lift One Handed in 1 action? What is the max they can lift with 2 hands in one action? And for how long can they hold it up there?

And does it change with TK 14 instead in one action? and can you take additional actions to lift more at one time?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Lameth

How much can a person lift, such as lifting a person over their head?

A person with a 14 ST, what is the max they can lift One Handed in 1 action? What is the max they can lift with 2 hands in one action? And for how long can they hold it up there?

This is pretty much all covered by the rules in "Lifting and Moving Things", p. B353. A character with ST 14 has a Basic Lift of 39. The weight you can lift with one hand in a single second (which I assume is what you mean by "1 action") is undefined in the rules, but since you can lift twice your Basic Lift with one hand in two seconds, I'd assume you can lift just your Basic Lift in one second. Similarly, you can lift eight times your BL with two hands in four seconds, so I'd assume you can lift twice your BL with two hands in one second.

Originally Posted by Lameth

And does it change with TK 14 instead in one action?

TK ST works exactly like regular ST, so no. The above answers would apply.

Originally Posted by Lameth

and can you take additional actions to lift more at one time?

Could you define "additional actions" here? You can lift more if you take longer, for sure - as mentioned above, you can lift twice your BL in one hand if you take two seconds, and eight times your BL in two hands if you take four seconds. If you're talking about something like Extra Attack, however, no, those don't speed up your ability to lift, only your ability to attack. Altered Time Rate is pretty much the only advantage (aside from just increasing your ST) that will let you lift heavier loads in less time.

[AlexanderHowl]

The max one-handed lift without extra-effort is 2×BL while the max two-handed lift without extra-effort is 8×BL (modified by Lifting skill). The max one-handed lift takes two seconds while the max two-handed lift takes four seconds. TK gives you two 'extra' hands, so it depends on how you use them.

[Lameth]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

This is pretty much all covered by the rules in "Lifting and Moving Things", p. B353. A character with ST 14 has a Basic Lift of 39. The weight you can lift with one hand in a single second (which I assume is what you mean by "1 action") is undefined in the rules, but since you can lift twice your Basic Lift with one hand in two seconds, I'd assume you can lift just your Basic Lift in one second. Similarly, you can lift eight times your BL with two hands in four seconds, so I'd assume you can lift twice your BL with two hands in one second.



TK ST works exactly like regular ST, so no. The above answers would apply.



Could you define "additional actions" here? You can lift more if you take longer, for sure - as mentioned above, you can lift twice your BL in one hand if you take two seconds, and eight times your BL in two hands if you take four seconds. If you're talking about something like Extra Attack, however, no, those don't speed up your ability to lift, only your ability to attack. Altered Time Rate is pretty much the only advantage (aside from just increasing your ST) that will let you lift heavier loads in less time.

Yes i meant extra time spent

[AlexanderHowl]

No, extra time will not allow you to lift more because it is a firm limit. If you want to lift more, take more ST (Lifting or TK) or take the Lifting Skill (the randomness of the Lifting skill annoys me, so I allow players to 'take 12' and modify their lift as if they had rolled '12' with their Lifting Skill). Of course, you can also take Super-Effort with TK, which is +400%, and allows for truly remarkable feats (God-Like Extra Effort is also another possibility).

[Lameth]

Ok so if I have this right, a person with ST 14 can max lift...

Normal ST
39 Lbs with one hand in 1 turn of preparing
78 Lbs with one hand in 2 turns of preparing

78 Lbs with two hands in 1 turn of preparing
156 Lbs with two hands in 2 turns of preparing
312 Lbs with two hands in 4 turns of preparing

And to use extra effort, you can increase your ST by 5% for each -1 you take to Will. So to take a -10 to will for this person, would allow them to increase their ST to a 21 for a turn only, and costs 1 FP. per turn used. So to left a weight with Extra Effort and move it a distance of 3 turns away would cost 3 FP?

TK
And then with TK of 14 it is assumed to always be 2 hands? Therefore it is:
78 Lbs in 1 turn of preparing
156 Lbs in 2 turns of preparing
312 Lbs in 4 turns of preparing

But it says under TK you do you actions in a single turn. So should you not be able to lift your Max in 1 turn? So above would be 312 lbs in 1 turn, no need to prepare?

Same rules apply for extra effort, correct?

[Kelly Pedersen]

Originally Posted by Lameth

Normal ST
39 Lbs with one hand in 1 turn of preparing
78 Lbs with one hand in 2 turns of preparing

78 Lbs with two hands in 1 turn of preparing
156 Lbs with two hands in 2 turns of preparing
312 Lbs with two hands in 4 turns of preparing

And to use extra effort, you can increase your ST by 5% for each -1 you take to Will. So to take a -10 to will for this person, would allow them to increase their ST to a 21 for a turn only, and costs 1 FP. per turn used. So to left a weight with Extra Effort and move it a distance of 3 turns away would cost 3 FP?

Not quite. The time spent isn't "preparing", it's actually lifting the object. So I would rule that you have to have the appropriate strength during the whole time you lift. However, Extra Effort doesn't require an FP per second, for non-instantaneous tasks it requires an Extra Effort roll and 1 FP for each roll you make. In the case of lifting objects, that would be once per time you'd require a Lifting roll, and hence once per object lifted.

Also, Extra Effort doesn't increase your ST, it applies directly to your Basic Lift. Rolling at -10 would increase the ST 14 character's BL from 39 to 58.5 lbs, not a ST 21 character's BL of 88.

Originally Posted by Lameth

TK
And then with TK of 14 it is assumed to always be 2 hands? Therefore it is:
78 Lbs in 1 turn of preparing
156 Lbs in 2 turns of preparing
312 Lbs in 4 turns of preparing

But it says under TK you do you actions in a single turn. So should you not be able to lift your Max in 1 turn? So above would be 312 lbs in 1 turn, no need to prepare?

You can choose to use only one "hand" for TK lifting, if you want to use the other hand for something else (lifting a second object, for example). So your numbers above are correct if you're using both TK hands.

As for the speed, Telekinesis says that "in combat... Your TK may ... perform one standard maneuver". That doesn't mean you can accomplish tasks that would normally take longer in only a turn, it means that it can only take one maneuver a turn. If you wanted to lift an object in combat, you'd have to take maneuvers (probably Ready maneuvers) equal to the number of seconds lifting it would take. The same goes for TK - if lifting an object would take you 4 seconds with your TK's ST, then you'll have to Concentrate for 4 seconds in combat, while each turn your TK "hands" take a Ready manuever to lift the object.

Originally Posted by Lameth

Same rules apply for extra effort, correct?

Extra Effort with TK, since it's an ability rather than an attribute like ST, follows different rules, as defined on Powers, pp. 160-161, "Extra Effort". Note that not all abilities can use those rules, only those that the GM feels are appropriate. In general, I personally wouldn't allow a "wild" ability, one with no power modifier at all, use the Extra Effort rules.

[AlexanderHowl]

Individual preferences vary from GM to GM. Since I do not allow 'wild' TK, it never really applies in my campaign (if someone wants a +0% source modifier, I have a few ready for use). With TK though, extra effort is much more efficient than extra effort for ST (+50% is +50% levels, not +50% BL, so you end up with much better results). For example, a character with TK 20 who makes an extra effort roll at -10 increase their TK to 30 for one action, more than doubling their BL.