Pleading For The Abolishment Of Criminal Law - THS style

[sn0wball]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

And in exactly the same sense, shooting arrows slightly higher to hit targets further away was not developed in a scientific way either.

Or take breeding. Our ancestors reached pretty impressing results by coupling the best specimens of plants and animals without the slightest sound scientific idea about it.

But once the scientific background of ballistics and genetics was known, it revolutinized the practice. So now we can not only shoot arrows, but rockets to the moon and not only breed, but create species.

[tbrierly]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

Indeed. It is a problem that I have been brooding on for a little over five years.

Interesting...
I don't think we often realise what a huge step towards "being civilized" it is to be able to accept that you don't have the "right" to take "vengeance" yourself, and be "willing" to let the government take on that role of dispensing justice. The government does so to maintain public order, and among other purposes, prevent the sort of endless ***-for-tat murders that can go on for generations.

The Hebrew scriptures ("Old Testament") record a command of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", which seems harsh to us now. However, that law was to limit retribution. One single eye for one single eye was all you were allowed, rather than poking out the eyes of everyone in the other family. Which just leads to revenge, and so it goes. So "eye for an eye" was somewhat more civilized.

Later on someone else came along and said "turn the other cheek", which is just too wacky and impossible, of course.

ntb

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by tbrierly

Interesting...
I don't think we often realise what a huge step towards "being civilized" it is to be able to accept that you don't have the "right" to take "vengeance" yourself, and be "willing" to let the government take on that role of dispensing justice. The government does so to maintain public order, and among other purposes, prevent the sort of endless ***-for-tat murders that can go on for generations.

The Hebrew scriptures ("Old Testament") record a command of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth", which seems harsh to us now. However, that law was to limit retribution. One single eye for one single eye was all you were allowed, rather than poking out the eyes of everyone in the other family. Which just leads to revenge, and so it goes. So "eye for an eye" was somewhat more civilized.

Later on someone else came along and said "turn the other cheek", which is just too wacky and impossible, of course.

ntb

________________________________________

Later on someone else came along and said "turn the other cheek", which is just too wacky and impossible, of course.

ntb[/QUOTE]
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Turn the other cheek is for individual behavior. If the state applied that to criminals it would be turning other peoples cheeks without their permission.

[Under The Moon]

This sounds like something one of he European Unions in THS's 2100 would easily go for. Also such methods of "conditioning" would be used by repressive third wave/third world regimes in 2100. I could easily see Rust China using it for those who are "social radicals". The result is a more repressive and conservative world than the standard THS setting so...

[sn0wball]

Now that you revived that thread, I must say that I still like my initial idea. It doesn´t have to be a central theme to a campaign and it doesn´t even have to be widely known or obvious to the players or their characters. I mean, how many people actually care about the dogmatic concepts behind criminal law or rehabilitation ?

But it might be a nice tool for the GM to surprise the players. Suppose they somehow thwarted the nefarious plans of some brilliant archvillain and turned him over to the authorities. I mean, everyone assumes that the judiciary in Europe is going to be soft on them, but imagine the players surprise if exactly that villain will serve them Dali Koke at some fastfood shack in the EU mere months ago. He is smiling a bit weird and dumb, but somehow, especially if he thinks that noone is looking he is still showing his evil grin and quietly laughing to himself ...

Or if from the other side, PCs that have crossed the law, might be offered to take part in a new, revolutionary program instead of doing time on asteroid Folsom. They might walk free soon - but will also have acquired fascinating new disadvantages (see Clockwork Orange) ... This, of course, might also happen to an Ally, Contact or Patron.

On the other hand, for less dystopia, this also might actually work. It might be more frigthening if that villain is actually, really turned into a good, decent citizen. He might genuinly decide to right the wrongs he inflicted on his victims, including the PCs.

[zorg]

Originally Posted by sn0wball

On the other hand, for less dystopia, this also might actually work. It might be more frigthening if that villain is actually, really turned into a good, decent citizen. He might genuinly decide to right the wrongs he inflicted on his victims, including the PCs.

There was quite good Babylon 5 episode on this. I don't quite remember the title right now, but it was in Season 3, I think.

In B5, the Earth Alliance uses "Death of Personality" as capital punishment. The criminal is telepathically mindwiped and programmed with a new personality, which is nice and law-abiding and eager to help others.

The plot of the episode is that a very nice NPC - a monk - remembers his former personality, which is that of a serial killer. Due to overwhelming guilt, he accepts death by the hand of one of the relatives of his former victims. Ironically, this relative gets sentenced to the "Death of Personality" in turn. Of course, the PC (Captain Sheridan) who knew the monk/serial killer/victim finds it very hard to forgive this newly programmed person...

It's a thoughtful story about vengeance, justice and guilt - and the concept is very fitting to the idea in the OP. Just exchange Telepathy with Nano Programming or what have you, and it should work.