Hand-to-Hand in Battlesuits

[khorboth]

It seems to me that a TL10 battlesuit designed for battlefield use with heavy weapons would be poorly suited (no pun intended) to hand-to-hand combat. The kinds of joint reinforcement and extra bulk added by the suit aren't enough to reduce DX, but I feel like they should give penalties to a few skills.

I'm thinking:
-3 to karate, judo, wrestling, and acrobatics
-1 to boxing and brawling

The lower penalties reflect skills more suited to the straightforward motions handled well by the battlesuit. Does this seem reasonable to folks?

I am aware that there's a whole genre of martial-arts battlesuits and giant robots, but I'm planning on staying closer to the hard sci-fi end of things.

I know there shouldn't be much call for the battle-suited person to worry about this, but I feel like it may come up in a campaign I'm pondering. Even a ST 60 battlesuit would not damage a DR100 battlesuit without a crit, but perhaps my suited-up character will want to subdue someone with wrestling? or run out of ammo and resort to punching?

I can't find any references to this in my books, but that may just be my weak search-fu.

[onetrikpony]

I'm new to GURPS but I've been considering this issue for my prospective Starshiptroopers and Cthulutech games.

I feel like Battlesuits would be clunky in the way they have to operate around the person inside them. I don't believe that "ironman"(tm) would be possible even at TL10.

I think -3 to a skill is a pretty big penalty considering that all DX skills are capped by the battlesuit skill (B193 Environment Suit).

I'm more in favor of capping/penalizing DX than particular skills. If something makes you clumsy at performing basic Wrestling movements that translates to a host of other physical activities unless there's something specific in the form-factor that specifically makes Wrestling difficult.

Close Quarters fighting should come up eventually because so many situations (in addition to running out of ammo) will force the issue. Anytime you encounter an opponent at a distance inside one or two Base Move's you end up in a "Krav-maga" situation. There' no penalty (that I've read) for parrying your main weapon and, one or several, unarmored opponents with 10mm pistols or Sawn-off Shotguns shooting low-tech enhanced penetrator or shape charge ammo will ruin your day. (see UT 152-154)

If you find any low cost methods of going toe-to-toe with power armor please let me know, I need them for my 'monster vs. power armor' games.

[Ji ji]

A boxing punch requires much more shoulder mobility than a lot of oriental martial arts (i.e. karate or kung-fu). I would use the -3 malus for Boxing skill, and -1 only for Brawling.

[Lord Azagthoth]

Some ideas:

You can handle the gloves as damage enhancers (like knuckle dusters) or even charge them like a Warhammer Power Glove. Give them weapons to counter other power armors like electircal discharges, acids...

The armor's weak points arond joints could cancel out the combat penalties. More freedom of movement at the cost of DR at the weak spots.

When wrestling, I let the operators roll vs. the armor's HT. So instead of trying to do damage to the operator through its thick armor, they could disable the engines or motorworks of the powered joints.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

A boxing punch requires much more shoulder mobility than a lot of oriental martial arts (i.e. karate or kung-fu). I would use the -3 malus for Boxing skill, and -1 only for Brawling.

Good info. I didn't know that, but it makes sense once I think about it.

[khorboth]

Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth

Some ideas:

You can handle the gloves as damage enhancers (like knuckle dusters) or even charge them like a Warhammer Power Glove. Give them weapons to counter other power armors like electircal discharges, acids...

That would be good for running the game where they ARE designed for HtH

Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth

The armor's weak points arond joints could cancel out the combat penalties. More freedom of movement at the cost of DR at the weak spots.

When wrestling, I let the operators roll vs. the armor's HT. So instead of trying to do damage to the operator through its thick armor, they could disable the engines or motorworks of the powered joints.

Very good points. I'll have to keep that in mind.

[chandley]

Originally Posted by Lord Azagthoth

The armor's weak points arond joints could cancel out the combat penalties. More freedom of movement at the cost of DR at the weak spots.

When wrestling, I let the operators roll vs. the armor's HT. So instead of trying to do damage to the operator through its thick armor, they could disable the engines or motorworks of the powered joints.

Just note that most battlesuits are NOT flexible DR (none of the TL 10 ones are, unless you make some kind of changes). Rigid DR protects against Arm Locks and Wrench Limb for a reason, armor design is well aware of the need to protect joints from moving in a way they shouldnt. In fact, that protection is what you are using to justify a reduction in skill in the first place.

Getting a MOS on a ST vs HT roll of 50 or more is going to be a tall order, even with +10 to your Lifting ST from your own armor... And the suits servos will be as protected as the wearers joints, and arguably far less susceptible to any move designed to hurt human joints.

I believe there is a martial arts style floating around in Pyramid that includes fighting in and against power armor. It uses a technical skill (Armory (Battlesuit)) to help find chinks in armor to reduce the DR you have to overcome... but you are still at a steep disadvantage.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Ji ji

A boxing punch requires much more shoulder mobility than a lot of oriental martial arts (i.e. karate or kung-fu). I would use the -3 malus for Boxing skill, and -1 only for Brawling.

I know what you mean by "malus," but I don't think it's an English word; my dictionary has no entry for it. The usual GURPS word is "penalty."

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I know what you mean by "malus," but I don't think it's an English word; my dictionary has no entry for it. The usual GURPS word is "penalty."

It's occasionally used as an opposite of bonus (bonus = good, malus = bad, Latin). The other possibility is the genus of apple trees, but that seems unlikely in context. One bad apple spoils the bunch, especially for people who hate Latin puns.

[Phantasm]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I know what you mean by "malus," but I don't think it's an English word; my dictionary has no entry for it. The usual GURPS word is "penalty."

Originally Posted by RyanW

It's occasionally used as an opposite of bonus (bonus = good, malus = bad, Latin). The other possibility is the genus of apple trees, but that seems unlikely in context. One bad apple spoils the bunch, especially for people who hate Latin puns.

Well, according to dictionary.com, "malus" is an English word, but in the words of Inigo Montoya, "I don't think it means what you think it means."