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Old 10-12-2020, 01:50 PM   #1
hcobb
 
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Default Talent/spell proficiency

Add to ITL 45:

For 500 XP (but not memory points) a character can purchase one point of proficiency in a specific talent or spell that they know. When using that talent or spell the character may add their total proficiency levels to adjusted DX or IQ for the use of the talent or spell. GMs can add proficiency levels for NPC alchemists and enchanters to ensure that the potions and enchantments are produced at base price.
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Old 10-17-2020, 02:52 AM   #2
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

Maybe limit it to +3 like Missile Weapons?
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Old 10-17-2020, 08:11 AM   #3
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

Okay, to balance out for the reduced attribute totals from the first edition,
  • Up to three levels of proficiency
  • Doesn't apply to combat talents and missile spells.

This way we get a +3 Enchanter to deal with the fact that we have zero DX 15 and IQ 20 wizards.

Anything else?
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Old 10-17-2020, 02:06 PM   #4
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

So this concept strays a bit further into the GURPS-scape than I would like, but the limitation to 3 'levels' of proficiency seems reasonable. It aligns nicely with the current concept of base/expert/mastery talents.

TBH, though, I think rebalancing stat progression costs to restore the potential for higher attribute totals is more desirable.

P.S. If I was to use this, I think it would be appropriate to increase the XP cost for each subsequent proficiency level (i.e. if the base talent is 500 XP, then level II should be 1000 XP and 1500 XP for level III).
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

The advantage of proficiency over attribute bloat is that it keeps characters distinct.
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Old 10-18-2020, 02:26 PM   #6
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

I think this could be quite serviceable and has some of the advantages mentioned above. The main question I ask myself about this sort of house rule is whether its benefits outweigh the disadvantage of making your table's game inconsistent with stat blocks from published materials. Basically, I feel like a house rule that doesn't involve a change in stat blocks and applies to everyone (e.g., like adding some new option in combat) is easier to implement without splitting off from canonical materials, whereas something that changes how characters are described on paper, particularly if it provides an advantage in play, is more problematic.
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Old 10-18-2020, 06:20 PM   #7
Steve Plambeck
 
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

Quote:
Originally Posted by TippetsTX View Post
TBH, though, I think rebalancing stat progression costs to restore the potential for higher attribute totals is more desirable.
I second that emotion! I'd rather bring back "attribute bloat", and tweak a tiny number of things where it would have a negative impact, than all the many, many tweaks proposed or added to Legacy to offset the effects of the Legacy attribute cap.

I never saw "attribute bloat" become a problem in my original group, and we had a two decade continuous run under the original rules.
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Old 10-20-2020, 08:21 AM   #8
zot
 
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

Quote:
Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
The advantage of proficiency over attribute bloat is that it keeps characters distinct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I think this could be quite serviceable and has some of the advantages mentioned above. The main question I ask myself about this sort of house rule is whether its benefits outweigh the disadvantage of making your table's game inconsistent with stat blocks from published materials. Basically, I feel like a house rule that doesn't involve a change in stat blocks and applies to everyone (e.g., like adding some new option in combat) is easier to implement without splitting off from canonical materials, whereas something that changes how characters are described on paper, particularly if it provides an advantage in play, is more problematic.
I'm way more a fan of proficiency than attribute bloat exactly because it makes characters more distinct. Both LAW and HOW do it this way.

Personally, I don't see this a really GURPSing out because ITL is already partway there with scalable talents like Missile Weapons and Toughness and the X / Master X talents (and, of course, Unarmed Combat 1 through 5).

I think there's already a problem anyway with published materials and stat blocks because of Legacy's introduction of the ala carte talent purchasing system.
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:08 AM   #9
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

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Originally Posted by hcobb View Post
Okay, to balance out for the reduced attribute totals from the first edition,
  • Up to three levels of proficiency
  • Doesn't apply to combat talents and missile spells.

This way we get a +3 Enchanter to deal with the fact that we have zero DX 15 and IQ 20 wizards.

Anything else?
I'm a little curious why an enchanter needs DX 15. The really difficult enchantments require apprentices with aid spells. Surely, a few can increase his DX as well when required, no?

Obviously, I'm not saying that spell proficiency is a bad idea. I just don't get the enchanter argument.
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Old 10-20-2020, 09:20 AM   #10
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Default Re: Talent/spell proficiency

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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
I'm a little curious why an enchanter needs DX 15. The really difficult enchantments require apprentices with aid spells. Surely, a few can increase his DX as well when required, no?

Obviously, I'm not saying that spell proficiency is a bad idea. I just don't get the enchanter argument.
ITL 150: "The weekly roll is made against the wizard’s basic DX. Potions, Aid spells, magic items, etc. cannot help."
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