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Old 11-19-2020, 08:15 AM   #1
warhorse11h
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Default Casting spells in HTH

I saw the thread discussing this topic and thought I would throw my two cents in.
The original game allowed a wizard to cast a spell in HTH, provided it was only on himself or his opponent. There was a -6 DX or -4 DX penalty depending on which rules you chose to use. Legacy rules left these options out.
I suggest the following solution. Allow casting under the limitation above, that it can only be done on oneself or one's opponent. If the IQ of the spell is equal to or 1 less than the caster's IQ, the penalty is -6 DX. If the spell IQ is 2 to 4 points below the caster's IQ, use -4 DX. If it is 5 or more points less, make it -2 DX.
Or go with either set of rules and don't worry about it.
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:08 AM   #2
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

That offers more granularity, but I'm happy to go along w/the rules in Wizard: -4DX to cast spells and spells can only be cast on oneself or HTH foe.
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Old 11-19-2020, 12:22 PM   #3
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

I've been going with the assumption that spells can't be cast in HTH. Seems a number of folks house rule a DX minus for casting. I may rethink it.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:56 PM   #4
Shostak
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

It's RAW, from Wizard, not a house rule.
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Old 11-19-2020, 07:37 PM   #5
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shostak View Post
It's RAW, from Wizard, not a house rule.
Right, fair point. I've just used the convention that since it doesn't appear in ITL, it's not an ITL rule so adopting it is house-ruling. No offense meant by that term, of course.

Without casting spells in HTH, Shock Shield is a lot less useful. Not worthless at all, but less useful.
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Old 11-20-2020, 02:10 AM   #6
hcobb
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

My favorite HTH spell is the occult zap follow up of the stab of the fagger-staff.
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Old 11-20-2020, 09:52 AM   #7
larsdangly
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

I have always allowed spell casting in HTH, following rules in Wizard, including after the transition to Legacy Edition TFT
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Old 11-20-2020, 03:36 PM   #8
phiwum
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

I've always been vulnerable to peer pressure, so if Lars and Shostak allow spell casting in HTH, I reckon I will too.

They are the cool kids, right?

(I know this comes off snarky, but I really will defer to the conventional wisdom here. Y'all got more experience than I do.)
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Old 11-20-2020, 05:42 PM   #9
RobW
 
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Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

We still use the Advanced Melee rules for combat, which allow spells in HTH but at -6DX. Somewhat related to warhorse's original post, we apply the rules on gestures, now in ITL p142. If the spell IQ is equal to or 1 less than the wizard's IQ, then the wizard must speak and gesture to cast the spell. Fine, controlled gesturing is impossible in HTH combat, so such spells can't be cast, at all.

Together these penalties mean HTH spells are usually a *terrible* option. Consider casting Shock Shield after being caught in HTH: an IQ10 spell so IQ12 or greater is required, -6DX so even a base of DX15 means ~ 1/3 chance of success.

Admittedly, HTH for us is rare, and even rarer for wizards, but who doesn't enjoy watching wizards struggle in this way?
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Old 11-20-2020, 06:54 PM   #10
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: Casting spells in HTH

I don't expect SJ intentionally removed the -6 DX spell-in-HTH option from the Legacy version of the advanced rules, since he didn't remove the -4 DX spell-in-HTH option from Legacy Wizard.

I like the logic of Warhorse's proposal here, since it matches the gesture rules in a way that makes sense.
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