What WOULD you find in a dwarven mine?

[Luke Bunyip]

Been thinking about what would have to be included in a hypothetical dwarven stronghold, as well as optional things and structures. This is the list I have come up with this morn, but is there anything which I have missed?

• Smelters
• Coal storage
• Ore storage
• Rare minerals storage and guards
• Mining
• Major pedestrian tunnels
• Rail tunnels
• Great halls
• Luxury accommodation
• Kitchens
• Cold stores
• Libraries, archives
• Dormitories
• Shops/storefronts/market places /bazaars
• Workshops
• Open space
• Armouries
• Inventors workshops
• Sewage farms/ biogas generators
• Garbage dumps
• Major tunnels (inclusive of rail networks) linking with the surface/other strongholds
• Forges
• Foundries
• Coking ovens
• Goldsmiths' workshops
• Tinkers' workshops
• Charcoal
• Refineries
• Enormous chimneys to vent the smelters, furnaces, and cooking-fires
• Air intakes and ventilation shafts
• Aqueducts
• Canals
• Locks
• Water pumps
• Fungus farms
• Sewers
• Schools
• Hospitials and hospices
• Cemetaries (Occasional statue, lots of plaques with runes, urns full of ashes)

I know this is vaguely similar to the title set in that Pyramid article about space colonies, but I have a bee in my bonnet about random map generation in fantasy games this morn. So there...

[rust]

Where do they worship their deities, educate their children, heal their sick
and bury their dead ?

[D10]

This is amazing, I have been thinking about starting to build a massive dwarven fortress my self, as my players are entering into one, what you listed is good, now all you need is versions of these same things but overtaken by some kind of evil!

Smelters being operated by salamanders conjuring fire elementals!

Coal Storage with dwarven zombies on it!

Ore storage with a dragon sleeping on it.

Rare mineral storage, but rare minerals are gone and only undeads remain!

Mining operations ? More like portal to hell with Balors and whatnots!

Major Pedestrian Tunnels ? Maybe they are collapsed, haunted and full of gigantic spiders.

Rail Tunnels seems like the perfect place to be swarmed by bats.

Great Halls, maybe the remnants of a great battle, I would suggest more undeads, maybe some big prize sitting in one of their hands.

Luxury accomodation for some reason makes me think of a portal, so I suggest you could have an open portal on it, maybe pumping some sort of extraplanar in the dungeon ? Maybe even the original invasion.

Kitchen, I imagined a bunch of goblins cooking, but for what ? maybe the dragon ? or a darker enemy.

Cold Stores, seems like the ideal place for some sort of spiritual encounter, maybe an old ghost of the fortress.

Libraries, archives: Teleportation circle, lots of books thrown around and damaged, all the magical ones already taken.

Dormitories: Some undeads, some personal belongings, maybe a bunch of goblins.

Bazaar: Whatever enemy you like, probably organized and in defensive fortification.

Workshops: Same as above, plus crafters.

Open Space: A great many corpses that someone transformed into a huge bone golem!

Armouries: A bunch of well armed undead but theres a secret passage with magic weapons behind it.

Inventors workshops, completely sealed, inside all looks normal, but theres a secret passage that leads to an exit from the dungeon, also tons of tools and stuff.

Sewage farms, probably some bizarre creature no one evne heard of, or worse, lots of them!

Garbage dumps, otyugh ?

Major tunnels, Spiders, bats, dumb things.

[Mark Skarr]

Well, you could always figure it out for yourself . . .. Create your own fortress/mine and, when you lose, run your party through it.

Just remember: Losing is fun.

Seriously, I'd take a long, hard look at Dwarf Fortress (link above), it's exactly what you're asking. Okay, it's also brutally hard. You might try it's easier "clone," Gnomoria.

[Luke Bunyip]

Originally Posted by rust

Where do they worship their deities, educate their children, heal their sick
and bury their dead ?

Excellent. Will add ASAP.

Originally Posted by D10

.... now all you need is versions of these same things but overtaken by some kind of evil!

Sounds like you are already onto it.

Originally Posted by Mark Skarr

Well, you could always figure it out for yourself

LOL. I am actually considering the spatial arrangement of these spaces, in order to then try to get a tile engine to randomly generate hex maps of dwarven strongholds. This is a carry-over for a project which has been kicking around the recesses of my mind for over four years. Finally decided to move from a board game format to a video game / computerised version.

Dwarf Fortress sounds cool, but it is intricate where I want simplicity, and doesn't do stuff at the operational level that I am after.

[Luke Bunyip]

Just to put this in context, I am thinking of these different types of structures in the framework of a quasi urban planning approach. I know very little about the layout of medieval cities, except that housing was integrated into all the other uses, waterways dictated the presence or lack thereof of a number of industries, and the quartering and the homogeneous presence of retail, arts or craft workshops in some streets.

Any suggested online links to a primer or intro in medieval urban layout?

[rust]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

Any suggested online links to a primer or intro in medieval urban layout?

I would recommend this website, especially the many useful links there:

http://the-orb.net/encyclop/culture/towns/towns.html

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

Any suggested online links to a primer or intro in medieval urban layout?

If you do not have a copy I would recommend:

Life in a Medieval City by Geis.

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Medieval-...al+cities+gies

There is a kindle ed but used copies start at $0.95...

[Mark Skarr]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

Dwarf Fortress sounds cool, but it is intricate where I want simplicity, and doesn't do stuff at the operational level that I am after.

You may want to consider mining the Dwarf Fortress Wiki. It has examples of how they suggest laying things out. It's a compilation of ideas from other users.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by Luke Bunyip

• Smelters
• Coal storage
• Ore storage

• Forges
• Foundries
• Goldsmiths' workshops
• Tinkers' workshops

There's a lot still to do after you have smelted the ore to metal.

• Refineries

You often have to extract the desirable stuff from the dross before you smelt.

I'd like to point out that coal is not suitable for metallurgical use until it is made into coke in a coking oven. Coke is a post-mediaeval invention, so I usually depict dwarves using charcoal.

In smelting and forging you often find that the amount of fuel (coke or charcoal) needed is vastly greater than that of the ore or metal. Therefore it is common to find that smelters and metal-working industries are located near sources of fuel (forests in mediæval times, coalfields since) or where transport from fuel sources is cheap (i.e. water-borne), rather than near mines. Transporting ore is cheaper than transporting fuel.

On another note, your dwarvish underground works are going to need

• Enormous chimneys to vent the smelters, furnaces, and cooking-fires, using waste heat to drive the ventilation system
• Air intakes and ventilation shafts
• Backup compressors or extractors to keep the breathing-air moving when the furnaces aren't alight.
• Aqueducts
• Sewers
• Latrines
• Baths
• Laundries

Near your kitchens and cold stores (pantries) you need

• Granaries
• Grist-mills
• Bakeries
• Breweries
• Cellars
• Refectories
• Sculleries
• Chandleries (for lamp-oil and candles)

And somewhere or other you need

• Theatres and concert-halls
• Bursaries, with strongrooms for cash and accounts
• Dry-goods storage
• Tailors' workshops
• Cobblers' workshops
• Timber storage
• Carpenters' and cabinetmaker's workshops
• Infirmaries
• Dispensaries