Children - Appropriate Traits?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

It also depends on the type of game that you are playing (even if it is slice of life, that can be mixed into a lot of genres). In most games though, I would generally give children under the age of four Ridiculous Luck, children under the age of eight Extraordinary Luck, and children under the age of twelve Luck (children can survive the most incredible accidents and can occasionally have amazing luck in general). Their varying levels of Luck can partially compensate for their low attributes, low skills, and low techniques, granting them surprising effectiveness every once and a while.

I don't think children realistically have any of these. You just think of the ones you've heard of because they had memorable stories, not the many more who don't have fortunate outcomes and end up dead from similar circumstances. On the other hand, children in stories very often have one of these traits, or at least that's a plausible interpretation of the narrative.

[Culture20]

Originally Posted by Kelly Pedersen

I'd roll a lot of these "doesn't understand social norms yet" behaviors into a special case of Social Stigma (Uneducated). Alternatively, double the cost of Social Stigma (Minor) for such characters (to -10 points), and call it "Social Stigma (Child)".

Social stigma is more about how people react toward you instead of how you act. There are a lot of children for whom the concept of “buying” at the store is more like instinctive foraging since they don’t understand the nuances of money or trade. And when they’re constantly told (usually by parents) “put that back”, they sometimes try to hide the item, then eventually try to hide the taking. It’s not a compulsion to steal, but it is a lack of awareness of social norms which results in stealing when they want something and have learned they’re not supposed to have it. There is an associated social stigma which results in signs/notices about not leaving unattended children in candy stores or bulk-food aisles.

[The Colonel]

Originally Posted by Maz

Pacifist (Especially Reluctant Killer) (I would go further than this, most kids generally don't like real violence at all. Cartoon-violence not withstanding. Buys are often indirectly encouraged to buy this down and might have lower levels. Btw. bullying and 'social-violence' is not included in this trait).

Children can, however, have a very poor understanding of the consequences of their actions and the permanency of harm - that and poor impulse control can from time to time lead to some very nasty incidents without any real intent behind them. The lack of appreciation for their own mortality is also a thing - although that may be a teenage rather than a young child thing.
I'm guessing the famous brutality of child soldiers is a buy off/disadvantage swap thing - it's not easy to make a child into a genuine killer, but once they go, they go deep.

[Bruno]

Failure to really grasp what serious injury means and how it can happen (because of lack of exposure) leads to children doing occasionally doing horrible things to others and doing random rather insane things to themselves. Part of this is Impulsive at play, but part of it is low IQ (and/or a reduced form of Bestial). It's not necessarily Callous (when threatening the safety of others) so much as just not really getting the consequences and finality of your actions. Is there a disadvantage for Carelessness?

The webcomic Questionable Content just had a (very mini) arc about a pre-teen who thought it would be funny to trim her nails with a Dremmel-style rotary cutting tool and naturally nearly ripped off her entire fingernail. It sounded very authentic to me and smells highly of True Life Tales [1].

An example of carelessness rather than totally-stupid-life-choices was my boss's daughter, who was around 13 at the time and managed to cut her finger-tip off with a paper-cutter guillotine (the terrifying swing-arm monstrosities). As a Klutz I cut myself repeatedly as a young child with scissors ("safety" scissors my scarred little fingers!) so I've always had a healthy respect for the guillotine - I had the painful learning experiences that taught me possible consequences of my actions, and it's really not that hard for a kid to make the equation small scissors = really painful cuts, therefore gigantic scissors = HORRIBLE cuts. My boss's daughter did not have the benefit of that lesson, and wasn't capable of figuring out the possible consequences of mis-use on her own.

After she got over the shock and horror, she spent the next two hours announcing loudly that she was dying and draping herself dramatically over furniture. "Always needs to be the center of attention" is a not-uncommon OPH with children.

[1] Of course, she had the tool because she was cutting a decorative design into a robot, and she got a morale-boosting speech about facing the consequences of her actions from a battle-robot. Webcomics and RPGs overlap in many ways.

[AlexanderHowl]

Children can also get quite curious about certain adult activities, which can lead to inappropriate behavior at an early age. From what I have read, many of the 20-something men dealing with porn addiction started looking at porn when they were very young, some as early as six years old, and were capable of feeding their ever increasing demand for porn without anyone noticing through using the Internet (I know that there are women with porn addiction, but they are either rarer and/or cause less social problems, so researchers do not tend to be as concerned about them as porn addicted men). It would not be unreasonable for children even as young as 10 to suffer from other addictive behaviors, as I have known adults who started drinking and smoking before the age of 10.

[Bruno]

My father quit smoking the first time when he was 6. He was stealing cigarettes from his older brother (10 years old) who was stealing cigarettes from their dad.

Which was an example of good judgement, but showing the poor judgement of a 6 year old, he did it by announcing it to the entire family, revealing that he was doing it at all, and accidentally ratting his brother out at the same.

It's the kind of secret a 6 year old can only have in a house full of smokers.

[Pursuivant]

Along with my foray into animal intelligence, I also did a bit of work on child intelligence.

This is my template for a 10 year-old:

10 Year-Old (-75 points)

Height: 50-59” Mass: 55-106 lbs.

Attributes: ST: 8 [-20]; DX: 10 [0]; IQ: 9 [-20]; HT: 9 [-10]. -50

Secondary Traits: HP: 8 [0]; FP: 9 [0]; Basic Speed: 5.0 [+5]; Basic Move: 4 [0]; Will: 8 [-5]; Per: 10 [+5]; Size: -1. +5

Advantages: Fast Learner 2 (Limitation: Only to buy off mental disadvantages and reduced attributes, and to learn languages,-40%) [24]; Pitiable [5]; Social Regard (Venerated) [5]. +34

Perks: Honest Face [1]. +1

Disadvantages: Bad Temper (15) [-5]; Curiosity (15) [-5]; Extra Sleep x 2 [-4]; Gullibility (15) [-5]; Impulsiveness (15) [-5]; Non-Iconographic [-10]; Oblivious [-10]; Short Attention Span [-10]; Social Stigma (Minor) [-5]; Unfit [-5]. -64

Optional Disadvantages: Absent-Minded [-15]; Bully [-10*]; Charitable [-15*]; Chummy or Gregarious [-5 or -10]; Clueless [-10]; Code of Honor [Varies]; Combat Paralysis [-15]; Compulsive Behavior (Play) [-5*]; Confused [-10*]; Delusions [Varies]; Duty (School or Work, Non-Hazardous, 12-) [-5]; Easy to Read [-10]; Fearfulness [-2/lvl]; Gluttony [-5*]; Honesty [-10]; Innumerate [-5]; Intolerance [Varies]; Jealousy [-10]; Kleptomania [-15]; Klutz [-5]; Laziness [-10]; Loner [-5]; Non-Iconographic [-10]; Odious Personal Habit [Varies]; Overconfidence [-5]; Pacifism [Varies]; Phobias (especially Being Alone, Darkness, and “Monsters”) [Varies]; Selfish [-5]; Sense of Duty [Varies]; Shyness [-5, -10, or -20]; Squeamishness [-10*]; Truthfulness [-5*].

Optional Quirks: Dislikes (Certain People or Type of People, or Certain Types of Animals or Situations) [-1]; Dreamer [-1]; Has a Crush On [Person] [-1]; Imaginative [-1]; Likes Certain Toys or Types of Play [-1].

Languages: Native Language (Native/Accented) [-1].

Cultural Familiarity: Native Culture [0].

Feature: Speaks any language learned with a Native accent regardless of actual fluency.

Discussion:

Height and weight are taken for modern NIH growth tables, the numbers are applicable for both sexes, but only applicable for modern (i.e., TL7-8) kids. Subtract a couple of inches and 5-10 pounds for pre-modern kids, especially those with heavy stress, disease pressure, and/or less than adequate nutrition.

Reduced ST is derived from height/mass and could be reduced by 1 for pre-modern, small, and/or sickly kids.

Reduced IQ is based on modern levels of schooling and intellectual development. It would be reduced by 1, or even 2, for children raised in deprived environments. Smart kids might have +1 or even +2 IQ.

Reduced HT represents reduced cardiovascular capacity, slightly increased vulnerability to toxins, heat, and cold, and immature immune system. It could be increased by 1 for unusually large or healthy kids.

Fast Learner is used to buy off reduced attributes and disadvantages associated with lack of basic education, to acquire languages, and to acquire basic "Everyman" skills such as Area Knowledge. Note that only the time required to acquire character points applied to languages is reduced. The number of character points required to learn a language at a given level is unchanged.

Pitiable, Social Regard, and Honest Face represent modern Western adult attitudes towards children. They might not be appropriate for children raised in pre-modern times or in non-Western cultures.

Bad Temper, Curiosity, Gullibility, Impulsiveness, Oblivious, and Short Attention Span represent the limits of the average 10 year old's mind and emotions. Exceptional children might have certain traits reduced to Quirk level or even bought off.

Extra Sleep and Unfit represent the physiological limits of a child's body. In particular, kids have reduced cardiovascular endurance and are more vulnerable to poison and disease due to a number of factors. Removing Unfit might be appropriate for larger and/or very healthy children, especially if basic HT isn't increased.

Assuming that Innumerate represents inability to do even simple math or counting, it would be unusual for an average modern 10 year-old to have this disadvantage. Most will have the Math-Shy Quirk, however. (By the 5th or 6th grade, a typical child will know addition, subtraction, multiplication, division, units of currency, units of time, and might have an introduction to algebraic concepts such simple plane geometry or solving a simple monomial equation.)

Likewise, while I've given kids with this template full spoken fluency with the language, it is limited by their reduced IQ (due to lack of experience) and in many cases, a child of this age might effectively have just Accented fluency with spoken native language due to limited vocabulary. Written fluency is Accented, due to limited vocabulary, writing ability, and reading comprehension. (At this age, kids can read and write, but spelling proficiency, reading comprehension, and vocabulary is still developing.)

Children raised in severely deprived environments are likely to have Innumerate and less than full fluency with the written form of their native language.

A "feature" of being a child is that you naturally acquire a "Native" accent (or the accent of whoever teaches you the language) for any spoken language you learn regardless of your level of language comprehension.

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Maz

Noisy (Oh god yes! And; Houserule: this stacks exponentially with the number of kids!

I modeled this as the Loud Voice perk. Combined with a trait such as Impulsiveness or Oblivious you get generic "noisy kid."

While a child's higher-pitched voice might not carry as far as a deeper adult voice, a crying child cries at exactly the right pitch to get another human's attention (literally the same frequencies as nails on a chalkboard). Babies are professionally annoying as a survival trait.

Due to smaller Size and mass kids get a natural bonus to Stealth skill.

Originally Posted by Maz

Actually it might be fitting to give kids Compulsive Carousing. this is not meant as "drinking and partying" but "to have fun... loudly - disregarding the consequences".

GURPS Space uses Compulsive Behavior (Play), which is appropriate for many young mammals, and even some adults, not just humans.

Originally Posted by Maz

Pacifist (Especially Reluctant Killer) (I would go further than this, most kids generally don't like real violence at all. Cartoon-violence not withstanding. Buys are often indirectly encouraged to buy this down and might have lower levels. Btw. bullying and 'social-violence' is not included in this trait).

OTOH, a child might not intuitively understand the consequences of indirect violence and might lack the capacity to empathize with members members of a group they've been trained to hate. Child soldiers are freaking scary for those reasons. I'd call Pacifism a very common optional trait. It's very likely to be found in modern Western kids, but it's by no means universal.

Originally Posted by Maz

Phobias of all sort (Monsters in the closet, the dark, etc. The most common I have heard of is indeed "the dark", but more than that "Being Alone").

Agreed. Another very common optional quirk or disadvantage.

Originally Posted by Maz

Selfish (Maybe a bit harsh on the kids but could be fitting with a high control number or at quirk level, but yes kids that age are often very status-minded, especially the girls who are often a bit ahead of the boys social-wise. )

Good call, especially for young teens/tweens.

Originally Posted by Maz

Short Attention Span or maybe more fitting Absent-Minded - or both. (I don't know how often I tell my kids to go get something only to find them 10 mins after, doing something completely different: "Oh, I forgot!". But could be quirk level instead.)

I'd go with Short Attention Span, since it fits in more with the way that educational programs for kids have to be structured. But, Absent-Minded is very common. It's also the classic "kid with labels" disad - for ADHD and lots of other learning disorders.

Originally Posted by Maz

Gluttony (candy-only ;) )

This is a very good call. Not just for candy, but any type of high-calorie goodie, like fried and/or sugary foods. Kids grow fast and their appetites are "programmed" accordingly. Given their generally poor impulse control, Gluttony is a logical optional disad. (It's also the stereotypical disad for the stereotypical "fat kid" in way too many stories.)

In GURPS terms, kids don't have Increased Life Support, but they do eat more in proportion to their mass than adults do due to their low SM.

Originally Posted by Maz

Imaginative (I would stretch this to include works of art and 'things to do when bored'... with focus on the "they might not be good ideas").

Alternately, the Dreamer quirk.

Originally Posted by Maz

Shyness (Again not at all all children. But it is a very common disadd for kids).

Alternately, you get Quirks or OPH (Show-Off, Teachers' Pet, etc.) related to a kid trying to impress adults or peers.

Originally Posted by Maz

Squeamish (Most kids really do not like 'yucky stuff'. But I am not sure it's worth a full disad. but they react stronger than adults and so I think a quirk level is justified. Many girls are 'trained' to have this disad or at least react like they have it, even if they don't. Some boys have whatever the opposite of squeamish is and revel in anything gross).

Quirk or OPH ("Enjoys grossing people out"), or if you want to pay homage to The Order of the Stick: Hobby Skill (Craft Disturbing Mental Image).

Some girls, especially the sort of girls who grow up to be STEM nerds, share this trait with the boys. I'm married to one!

[Pursuivant]

Originally Posted by Culture20

Social stigma is more about how people react toward you instead of how you act. There are a lot of children for whom the concept of “buying” at the store is more like instinctive foraging since they don’t understand the nuances of money or trade.

For my house ruled child templates, I modeled this sort of behavior as a variant of the Bestial disad, at least for tiny children young enough that ideas like "share your toys," "don't steal," and "other people feel pain/have feelings," are new concepts.

For older kids, it fits into reduced IQ/Will and Impulsiveness.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Language Talent [10]. . . .

Likewise, while I've given kids with this template full spoken fluency with the language, it is limited by their reduced IQ (due to lack of experience) and in many cases, a child of this age might effectively have just Accented fluency with spoken native language due to limited vocabulary. Written fluency is Accented, due to limited vocabulary, writing ability, and reading comprehension. (At this age, kids can read and write, but spelling proficiency, reading comprehension, and vocabulary is still developing.)

Children raised in severely deprived environments are likely to have Innumerate and less than full fluency with the written form of their native language.

Children clearly do not have Language Talent as written. If they did, they could pay 4 points and have (some non-native language) at Native; but then when they reached adulthood and Language Talent went away, their fluency in that same language would drop to Accented. LT represents not how fast you learn languages but how much you *have learned* for a given point/time expenditure.

There's also the interesting question of whether a kid with Accented fluency in their native language would have it boosted to Native by LT. I don't know if there is canon on this; the RAW seem to assume Native fluency in your native language, and there's no higher level for LT to raise you to.

I do think that a kid in the lower elementary grades probably would have Accented fluency. Likely enough they have minor mispronunciations, they don't know how to say a lot of adult words, and they read with some hesitation. Of course there are exceptions in both directions. . . .