01-30-2016, 01:09 AM | #41 |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
Those don't give skill level bonuses, they just offset some of the other difficulties by letting wizards without Magery cast and making FP/ER lost to magic recharge immediately, respectively. Meanwhile Low Mana, spells "on", and numerous other modifiers out there readily give skill penalties.
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01-30-2016, 01:25 AM | #42 | |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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01-30-2016, 01:53 AM | #43 |
Night Watchman
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Cambridge, UK
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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01-31-2016, 12:20 AM | #44 |
formerly known as 'Kenneth Latrans'
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Wyoming, Michigan
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
It would make great sense for symmetry with Low Mana, but that's not an effect it has.
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01-31-2016, 12:32 AM | #45 |
Join Date: Mar 2013
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
Actually some chance reading in Thaumatology suggests that this is a quantum information thing. The official definition says no, but every so often you run into something that says it does.
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01-31-2016, 09:53 PM | #46 |
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: New England
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
A few folks have written to the effect that "GURPS Magic is broken. The very title of this thread is that it needs fixing.
I think that GURPS Magic is actually really quite good and not broken at all. The whole concept of colleges provides a great way to encourage niche wizards and this idea is elaborated through Thumatology:Magical Styles. Magic also provides alternative rules for syntactic and symbol magic that are straightforward and easy to understand. The rules, as provided, give a solid foundation upon which to build one's own ideosyncratic system uniquely appropriate for your world. That is pretty cool. Thanks SJG! While all the prerequisite chains don't always make sense to me, and sometimes I wish that Magery levels unlocked higher power levels in individual spells, I don't feel compelled to claim the system is in dire need of a thorough overhaul, based on my minor dissatisfaction. After all, I'm free to change the system to my whims. So, I think it is unfair to state that "GURPS Magic is a broken system." The fact that the book commands a pretty penny on the used market suggest that plenty of others agree. But what if the Magic system was overhauled? Who's overhaul would it be? Would it be the overhaul that satisfied the combat-wizard contingent who want to sling death and destruction at zero FP cost? Or would it be the fix that balanced the system to suit those who think Magic is overpriced and underpowered? Or perhaps the retooling that would satisfy those who are convinced that it is underpriced and overpowered? Nothing would please everyone. For instance, I, for one, don't particularly like what the proposed "fix" that opened this thread would do to the whole system, although there are some bits worth thinking about. This forum, with its various opinions and insights into a multitude of house rules, is a wonderful resource. But I don't think that saying the Magic system is broken really helps. It certainly is unlikely to make someone lurking or scanning these threads to learn more about GURPS before picking it up then go on to actually adopt the system, or to return to it after a hiatus. A more positive tone, one that acknowledges GURPS's flexibility to meet one's needs and then illustrating that through alternatives to the RAW seems a much better approach. |
02-03-2016, 02:51 AM | #47 | |||||||
Join Date: Oct 2015
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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02-03-2016, 11:54 AM | #48 | |
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: South Dakota, USA
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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GURPS is a tool kit system. This means it is consistent in that it is a generic, universal role-playing system. You can do serious games, silly games and everything in between. You can do high fantasy, hard sci-fi, any setting including whatever fantastic or mundane elements you like. However individual campaigns may involve elements are barred. The suggestion I made was no worse than what we have: we have magic in some settings as (mostly) Skills, we have it as Powers, and there are multiple systems... and that is fine. Magic doesn't always work the same and if you're running a campaign where players reality hope, they should be used to even the laws of physics being inconsistent at times. In some settings Magic can be handles as skills, in others as powers. The same goes for chi-based abilities. What I proposed was that all such things have a unifying scheme that takes one of three approaches: 1) All (or at least mostly) Skill Based, like the default Magic system and chi-fueled abilities. 2) All (or at least mostly) Advantage based, like Powers 3) A blend of the two, akin to how GURPS handled psionics in 3e (and possibly an option presented in 4e books I don't own). So all I am suggesting is to make this more generic and universal. These three options should be recognized so that when designing the setting, you select what best represents "Powers" in your setting, be that magic, psionic, super, divine, etc.
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02-03-2016, 11:59 AM | #49 | ||
Join Date: Apr 2011
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
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GURPS Thaumatology: Sorcery takes another approach. There you have spells designed as advantages in advanced and added to a fixed spell list available for the campaign. The GM builds an advantage that models the intended spell effect, then applies the Sorcery power modifier, which adds all the game mechanics specific to Sorcery. At that point, if the player spends the points, he can buy the spell. Now let's look at the default Magic system (which I agree is not broken). If you have a specific effect in mind, perhaps drawn from some other fictional setting, you have two choices: A) find the closest spell that kind of/sort of fits and use that, or B) create and balance your own new spell by eyeballing it. While RPM is designed more for spontaneous on-the-fly magic systems, and Sorcery more for spamming a few signature spells the way you see people do it in D&D with the Sorcerer or Warlock, both systems are flexible enough to allow enormous scope for customization and adaptation. Default Magic is quite good... but Sorcery and RPM are better, and more in keeping with the GURPS philosophy. Quote:
My goal was to take what was best about default Magic and try to retrofit a spell creation system to it. I mostly like default Magic. So I took "Skills into Powers" and worked it backwards as "Powers into Skills". Here's the link. Such a concept also allow you to turn any advantage into a supernatural skill the way GURPS already does with the Bard and Ninja skills. You start by designing an advantage to reflect the game mechanics of the spell effect you want. You convert it into a supernatural skill. Then, much like with Sorcery, apply modifiers to convert and fit it to the magical spell system. |
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02-03-2016, 02:14 PM | #50 |
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Behind You
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Re: Partial Fix of Magic: Fire College
It's not the concept of the magic system that's broke. It's the spell list IMO. Too much of it is arbitrary. And the system definitely didn't consider some of us aren't Arthurian lore for campaigns.
If I want magic in a TL11 setting, the system becomes pretty useless. Sorcery and RPM consider various TLs where magic doesn't.
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