Skills for AIs and robots

[hal]

I'm a touch confused about what Ultratech for 4e says about skills versus what is possible per the rules...

Pages 23 and 25 seem to contain the money quotes in that the computer's IQ is tied directly to the complexity of the program running the AI software, and that later on, under taboo traits, the IQ of the AI is directly limited by the complexity of the computer itself.

Then - as if that weren't enough, I see that software that grants a bonus to skill, is based upon whether it grants a +0, +1, or +2.

Wouldn't that be the limiting factor for skills, or in the event that the skills can be programs, that they start off at skill 12 and require higher complexities in order to be higher skill levels? Just musing aloud.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by hal

Then - as if that weren't enough, I see that software that grants a bonus to skill, is based upon whether it grants a +0, +1, or +2.

This is pretty specifically for programs that provide a bonus to a human using the computer, not the skill of an AI itself. It's similar to allowing a complementary skill to add +1 or +2 to another character's roll, or how a fine piece of equipment can give a bonus to some tasks.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by Agemegos

The idea is that the a human designating officer will tell the point-defence lasers which incoming torpedos and shells to fire at, and the (very-rapid-fire, improved) lasers will then aim and fire themselves.

It appears that the RAW are not definitive, so why not reverse engineer what skill levels make sense for your game?

How good are the AIs compared to human crew in terms of skill? In terms of cost?

How good is PD vs ballistics? Is ship to ship combat determined by beams (PD Dominates), ballistics (PD cannot stop a missile volley), or a mixed strategy?

[hal]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

This is pretty specifically for programs that provide a bonus to a human using the computer, not the skill of an AI itself. It's similar to allowing a complementary skill to add +1 or +2 to another character's roll, or how a fine piece of equipment can give a bonus to some tasks.

The problem with that, is that there are NO specifics relating to the complexity rating of "skills" for AI's - which means... ???

If there are no rules for complexity ratings for AI skills as far as programs filling in for skills, then either the AI's programming itself permits for the integration of skills directly into its matrix programming (ie the AI software itself), or it requires that each skill be treated as a program, and that the limits on what programs/skills it can learn is based solely upon the complexity of the computer, not the IQ of the computer.

It seems decidedly odd that ULTRATECH doesn't have those specific rules, yet GURPS ROBOTS do. <shrug>

[vicky_molokh]

THS CT has rules for plug-in modular skill programs and Complexities, but not for integral ones.

[Anthony]

The problem with complexity limits on skills is that an AI with the same complexity of the human brain and the same general performance should have the same skill limits, and GURPS doesn't put any limit on human skill levels (this is actually a problem with AI IQ, as well; human brain complexity varies by well under 1 point).

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by hal

The problem with that, is that there are NO specifics relating to the complexity rating of "skills" for AI's - which means... ???

Which means nothing except that the authors didn't address the issue. That leaves it in the purview of GMs to decide for their own campaigns. Including guidelines or suggestions would have been nice, of course.

It seems decidedly odd that ULTRATECH doesn't have those specific rules, yet GURPS ROBOTS do. <shrug>

Yeah, absent specifics it might be best to adapt 3rd edition's rules.

[hal]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The problem with complexity limits on skills is that an AI with the same complexity of the human brain and the same general performance should have the same skill limits, and GURPS doesn't put any limit on human skill levels (this is actually a problem with AI IQ, as well; human brain complexity varies by well under 1 point).

Once GURPS equates a given brain with a given complexity, things will work out ;)

problem is - people doing research into the human brain are beginning to suspect that there is a LOT more going on beneath the surface than originally thought, and that the neuron connections, being three-dimensional, are more complex.

In the end? If the Game Master wants positronic brains that are equal to flesh and blood brains, that's the way the cookie crumbles. If the GM wants to develop their own rules to fill avoid left by the authors - you KNOW I'm all for it! But you also know, that I Loathe the idea of treating robots as characters and that they should be built on character points rather than a set of rules not unlike those found in GURPS ROBOTS. I loathe the idea of building starships on character points, cars on character points, etc. But, that's just me...

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Oh, sure, you can do that. But since an IQ4 AI can still have DX20, this doesn't solve anything. Since a low-IQ AI is dirt-cheap to improve compared to buying a higher-IQ one.

Is AI DX not tied to Complexity?

[Langy]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Is AI DX not tied to Complexity?

In the default rules, nope. Not at all.