GURPS Rifts?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker

I'll probably keep the "a shot of a modern energy weapon will kill a normal human, always"

Why? It assumes ridiculous energy storage densities. A TL9 (which probably where I'd peg RIFTS) laser has a pretty good chance of killing an unarmored person, anyway. If you make it so handguns do an average of 300* points of damage per shot; lots of things are going to get wonky.

and make armor semi-ablative according to hit location

This is realistic but requires some extra book-keeping.

*Actually they'd have to do a minimum of 300 points of damage, since even a single point of M.D.C. will kill a normal person instantly.

[combatmedic]

One thing I would NOT convert is mega-damage. IMO, that's the most broken part of RIFTS. I mention this because of the energy weapon reference made by Wicked Lurker. YMMV

[nanoboy]

Yeah, for the weapons, just take a look at the list, find what is an average one, and then set that as the norm in Ultratech. For flavor, you can even add things, since the Rifts rules for lasers are identical for plasma cannons and particle beams. For example, you can give particle beams the surge modifier and make plasma bolts explode. GURPS handles that better than Rifts anyway. None of your players will care that your weapons are not exactly like they were in the original Rifts books. Actually, when you take a long and hard look at it, they should thank you for the weapons not being exactly as they are in the Rifts books.

[The Benj]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why? It assumes ridiculous energy storage densities. A TL9 (which probably where I'd peg RIFTS) laser has a pretty good chance of killing an unarmored person, anyway. If you make it so handguns do an average of 300* points of damage per shot; lots of things are going to get wonky. This is realistic but requires some extra book-keeping.

*Actually they'd have to do a minimum of 300 points of damage, since even a single point of M.D.C. will kill a normal person instantly.

Where did you pluck that 300 figure from? That's enough to instantly auto-kill someone with 50 Hit Points!
Even if you wanted to preserve that dynamic, 6dx3 is sufficient to very reliably auto-kill a normal person in a single shot. 300 points seems excessive.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by The Benj

Where did you pluck that 300 figure from? That's enough to instantly auto-kill someone with 50 Hit Points!

Weird bad math, or something, sorry.

A single point of M.D.C can insta-kill all but the toughest (augmented) S.D.C persons. Non-augmented humans (no matter how tough) don't stand a chance. If the strongest a normal human can possibly be is ST 20 and HP can vary up to +30%, then that's 26 HP. Modern (S.D.C) body armor is no help, therefore minimum damage needs to be able to penetrate an assault vest with inserts and then do 6xHP. So it needs to do only 191 points of damage. I was off by 100 points.

Even if you wanted to preserve that dynamic, 6dx3 is sufficient to very reliably auto-kill a normal person in a single shot. 300 points seems excessive.

Minimum damage for 6dx3 is only 18, that won't even potentially kill the average human. It'd need to be much higher than that.

[nanoboy]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Weird bad math, or something, sorry.

A single point of M.D.C can insta-kill all but the toughest (augmented) S.D.C persons. Non-augmented humans (no matter how tough) don't stand a chance. If the strongest a normal human can possibly be is ST 20 and HP can vary up to +30%, then that's 26 HP. Modern (S.D.C) body armor is no help, therefore minimum damage needs to be able to penetrate an assault vest with inserts and then do 6xHP. So it needs to do only 191 points of damage. I was off by 100 points.

Minimum damage for 6dx3 is only 18, that won't even potentially kill the average human. It'd need to be much higher than that.

Okay, but why would you want to mimic that? The whole reason to use GURPS is to get away from the bizarre rules of Rifts. I mean, Rifts doesn't even account for the possibility that the laser blast hit the target in the leg, not killing him but instead crippling him. Trying to convert the damage in such a way is rather silly, I think.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by nanoboy

Okay, but why would you want to mimic that? The whole reason to use GURPS is to get away from the bizarre rules of Rifts. I mean, Rifts doesn't even account for the possibility that the laser blast hit the target in the leg, not killing him but instead crippling him. Trying to convert the damage in such a way is rather silly, I think.

That's my point. I'm saying don't do that because it is silly. I am suggesting instead that Wicked Lurker not "keep the 'a shot of a modern energy weapon will kill a normal human, always'" and instead just use the GURPS stats without any attempt at mechanical conversion. Even 6dx3 is too much for a handgun, IMO, and will create bizarre interactions between weapons and the environment.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

...
Minimum damage for 6dx3 is only 18, that won't even potentially kill the average human. It'd need to be much higher than that.

If you roll six dice and every single one of them comes up a one, I'm checking for loaded dice. The more dice you roll the tighter the grouping around the average the results are.

[pawsplay]

Originally Posted by nanoboy

Okay, but why would you want to mimic that? The whole reason to use GURPS is to get away from the bizarre rules of Rifts. I mean, Rifts doesn't even account for the possibility that the laser blast hit the target in the leg, not killing him but instead crippling him. Trying to convert the damage in such a way is rather silly, I think.

If it was a hot enough laser, it would probably boil all of your blood anyway.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

If it was a hot enough laser, it would probably boil all of your blood anyway.

Mmm.... heat propagates at a certain rate. It's just not fast enough to boil ALL the blood in your body without the laser looking like something dramatically different than what we think of when we say "laser."