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Old 05-26-2018, 10:49 AM   #1
WaterAndWindSpirit
 
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Default Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

How much would a telepathic "decoy" advantage be worth for a character with Digital Mind?

Telepathic decoy meaning that if you attempt to read the mind of your target through telepathy, the reading doesn't come up blank and can come up with whatever the Digital Mind wants to? (With a quick contest of Mind Block vs Detect Lies or something similar to notice an inconsistency in the "decoy" thought pattern, like the "decoy" complaining about the heat that has been killing them for the last hour while they just came out of a climate controlled room where it wasn't hot for obvious reasons.)

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Old 05-26-2018, 10:58 AM   #2
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

The No Signature Enhancement is probably enough in most circumstances.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:04 AM   #3
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

There's a couple options here. First, Supers presents the Camouflaged Mind Block technique (p. 38). It lets you use Mind Block subtly, appearing as a "normal" stream-of-consciousness set of thoughts. That doesn't let you specifically set what you appear to be thinking about, though, it's just generic babble.

The second option would be the Mind Shield advantage, with an enhancement. Personally, I'd peg the ability to present a false image if the opponent fails to penetrate your Mind Shield as +50%. It would only work if they failed by the margin provided by your shield, though - if they failed by more than that, they'd just bounce off entirely.

Edited to add: Sorry, I think I misunderstood your question. If you're just trying to make it so a computer brain doesn't "read" as a computer brain, but instead seems like a natural mind the reader just happens to not be able to read right now, then Refplace's suggestion of Low Signature is right, yeah.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:29 AM   #4
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

Compartmentalized mind with (no extra action -80%) should do it. It may be overkill, but it does what you describe, and it even fits the description.
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Old 05-26-2018, 12:23 PM   #5
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

I would use the Illusion advantage -- it's the advantage for presenting a false reality to senses.
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Old 05-26-2018, 02:12 PM   #6
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Compartmentalized mind with (no extra action -80%) should do it. It may be overkill, but it does what you describe, and it even fits the description.
I'm not sure even that would be enough. It's not like any of us can fully control what we're thinking. Same would go for an extra mind.

Not that I have any better ideas, mind you.
In common English, it seems like an illusory image, but for Gurps write ups, I'm not sure.
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Old 05-26-2018, 03:06 PM   #7
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by munin View Post
I would use the Illusion advantage -- it's the advantage for presenting a false reality to senses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
Compartmentalized mind with (no extra action -80%) should do it. It may be overkill, but it does what you describe, and it even fits the description.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I'm not sure even that would be enough. It's not like any of us can fully control what we're thinking. Same would go for an extra mind.

Not that I have any better ideas, mind you.
In common English, it seems like an illusory image, but for Gurps write ups, I'm not sure.
Perhaps a combination of these two is what's needed:

Compartmentalized mind (no extra action -80%)[10] + Illusion (Extra Sense mind reading +20%, Auditory only -70%)[13]

Illusion ought to let you buy off auditory as well (for a total cost of [5] per non-standard sense) but it doesn't.

You could probably replace Compartmentalized mind with Digital mind, now that I think about it.
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Old 05-26-2018, 03:33 PM   #8
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

Illusion requires a Concentrate maneuver to activate, so I don't think it can be used to achieve the desired effect.

I guess if you gave your illusion Independence, you could set up the illusion beforehand and then change it as needed, but you wouldn't always be able to give each mind reading attempt a different "image", since you'll have to concentrate to change it. If you took a 'full' compartmentalized mind, you could concentrate on the illusion and change it every turn, but if your mind is read twice in once combat turn, you still wouldn't have time to change your illusion to give each read attempt a different result.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
[...]Illusion ought to let you buy off auditory as well (for a total cost of [5] per non-standard sense) but it doesn't.[...]
I'd reinterpret "Auditory Only" as "Not Visual" and likewise reinterpret "Visual Only" as "Not Auditory". Also, the price for "Extended" on illusion is based on the price of the sense advantage, so for the Mind Reading advantage that is +30%. It might even make sense to say the advantage fooled is Mind Reading(Cybernetic, Sensory, Universal) for a +66% modifier, but to fool the Sensory part, you'd probably need to add Initiative to Illusion (and you still have to use your illusion ability before the mind-reading attempt).

Last edited by Extrarius; 05-26-2018 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 05-26-2018, 07:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extrarius View Post
Illusion requires a Concentrate maneuver to activate
So make it Reflexive. Won't need CM, either.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:58 AM   #10
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Default Re: Telepathic decoy for Digital Mind?

I noticed I misread about the price of extra sense - only variants of vision and hearing are priced based on the cost, presumably because those typically cost less than 20 pts and thus come out to smaller enhancements that the 'full' Extended.

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Originally Posted by Anaraxes View Post
So make it Reflexive. Won't need CM, either.
To me, Illusion seems more like an attack power than a sense or defense. That is definitely true when it has the Stigmata enhancement. Reflexive includes Reduced Time, which is explicitly forbidden for attacks. Considering the power we're trying to build, I might allow it for the RAW cost in a build something like the following:

Illusion(Independence +40%, Reflexive +40%, Extra Sense: Mind Reading +20%, Removed Sense Groups: Vision and Hearing -100% {1}, Extra Sense: Mental Sensory +20% {1}, Defensive Only -10% {2}, Only vs Mind Reading on Self -10% {3}) [25]

Independence ensures your illusory mind can stay active for more than the initial second (in case of longer mind-reading attempts) and also makes sure that the simulated mind continues along reasonable thought patterns when you're not controlling it, but it doesn't take away the option of controlling it. I'm not sure Independence is enough, but, if not, we'd need something like "Controllable Initiative" with the benefits of Initiative (complex uncontrolled interactions/responses) and Independence (can still control the illusion as desired).

Reflexive enables the advantage to activate automatically whenever a mind-reading attempt is made against you. It would normally also provide a level of Reduced time, making other uses free actions, but other limitations present prevent such other uses.

If we consider the Mind Reading advantage a sense, it seems the standard price is +20% for the chance to fool it.

Illusions that normally affect vision also get a point break to extend them to vision variants, and likewise for illusions that normally affect hearing. Thus, I call them sense groups. I then reinterpret "Visual Only" as "Not vs Normal Hearing (or variants at reduced cost)" and "Auditory Only" as "Not vs Normal Vision (or variants at reduced cost)". I have no idea if -100% is fair for this combination, but the reinterpretation makes it a straightforward value to arrive at.

{1} It seems worth extra points if you can also fool Mind Reading with the Sensory enhancement, especially if you're removing normal vision and hearing from the advantage. I'm not sure if the -80% is fair for "Only the mind's eye/ear instead of vision/hearing", but it matches the above reinterpretation of "X sense Only"

{2} This ability seems to be intended as a defensive power, so I started with the price of "Unconscious Only", but that also matches the cost of the "Reduced Time" included with "Reflexive". You're still getting some of the utility of "Reduced Time" IMO (with as-needed activation that doesn't require Maneuvers), but you're not getting the full value if you can't activate your power freely. Thus, -10% seems fair to me.

{3} You could theoretically make illusions for mind reading attempts against other minds in your AoE (2 yards by default), and if you're trying to keep a secret, being able to shield others that know would definitely be helpful. However, since this is a defensive power, having this aspect and "Defensive Only" add up to "Unconscious Only" kind of seems fair. It also makes for a nice total modifier of +0%.
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