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Old 05-01-2018, 09:59 PM   #1
Mister Negative
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Most definitely alone
Default Coin-Op Dungeon

So, I thought I would share my idea for a 'not-quite mega-"dungeon:

A typical 'dungeon locale' (in my case, a ruined and collapsing castle), with the standard dungeon entrance within--with one caveat. At the 'entrance' to the dungeon proper (a darkened passage going down in this case) is a small alcove with a sculpted receptacle (in my case, probably a demonic face with open mouth, in homage to Tomb of Horrors).

The delvers can descend and explore normally, finding a small and reasonably predictable dungeon.

Rumors in town suggest that it's 'lucky' to drop a copper or two into the receptacle before descending, however.

If they do so, in most cases, they'll encounter the same dungeon.

But if they happen to drop certain coins, perhaps quite old ones, or ones of certain foreign provenance, or perhaps of exotic metals, the dungeon into which they descend is entirely different. If they retreat from the dungeon through the same portal, they emerge at the same, familiar ruin--but if they leave the dungeon through another exit, they will find themselves somewhere else entirely!

Mayhaps the dungeon is built by a mad wizard, or the portal is simply a gate. Whatever the reason in your world, the coin-op dungeon allows the repeated exploration of a mega-dungeon without some of the hassles involved in creating one:

You don't have to prepare levels 'in case' the PCs explore them. You can create levels, then introduce the coins necessary to explore them even in other levels.

The careful mapping necessary to allow multiple dungeons levels to overlap and interact can be minimized (note that there's nothing requiring you to do so--each dungeon could have multiple levels!). Dungeon levels don't have to physically interact, so the well in one dungeon doesn't plunge through the ceiling of another.

Antagonistic or implausible dungeon pairings don't have to happen! The implacable foes are in different dungeons, or the silly level is not connected to the horror level!

The mega-dungeon can be less reliant on space constraints. You don't have to situate your dungeon in a space where multiple sprawling levels can overlay each other.

The GM can use restricted coins to 'unlock' more dangerous dungeons without the standard conceit of 'deeper levels' are more dangerous--and counterfeit coins could deposit the party in an unexpected dungeon!

Since most (DF) gate magic is not available to DFRPG PCs, you don't have to worry overmuch about the PCs 'gaming' the gate mechanism itself, either.

Depending on your gaming group and expectations, the dungeon itself can be used as a way to explore other areas (come out an exit in the jungle, or the mountains) or simply a way to have more variety (dungeons don't have to have other usable exits).

Curious PCs could explore the origin of the coin-op dungeon, the methods of its creation, and the coins necessary to 'unlock' new levels, or simply use the coin-op dungeon to explore a continually new dungeon without pesky travel time!

For an added twist, older coins could open a gateway to older versions of the same dungeon. Not for the GM averse to careful plotting, but being able to see "dungeon history" could also be fun.


Admittedly, you lose some of the flavor of 'standard' megadungeon play. Stairs, ramps, and hidden passages to other levels get eliminated (or replaced by magical versions). Complex interaction between various megadungeon factions is reduced (the orcs aren't going to encroach on the lizardmen if the orcs are in a different dungeon).

However, for my needs, it seemed like a good enough idea. I didn't want to design 10-12 sprawling levels in case my group decides to do something else in a year. I didn't want to have to improvise when they wandered down a corridor I hadn't finished mapping. I didn't want them to wonder "Wait, the same dungeon has Demogorgon, and a red dragon, and vampires, AND a demilich?"

Is it a creative idea? Is it terrible? What's wrong with it? Is it something you might like to use too?
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Old 05-02-2018, 08:35 AM   #2
Dalin
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Default Re: Coin-Op Dungeon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Negative View Post
Is it a creative idea? Is it terrible? What's wrong with it? Is it something you might like to use too?
When I read the subject line of this post, I put on my skeptical face. Sounded like way too much of a gimmick. But your full rendition won me over. I'm not much for mega-dungeons to begin with, but this has some interesting flavor potential for an ongoing campaign. Some thoughts:
  • Love the idea of rare coins powering it. You may want to think about some interesting NPCs in Town who might deal in rare coins.
  • If someone doesn't like the coin idea, it can easily be re-skinned to use gems, jewelry, tomes of lore, magic items, holy relics, blood sacrifices, etc.
  • You could play around with having denizens from exotic locations appear in the wilderness around the dunge on. If I'm understanding the gate logic, nothing would stop a dinosaur from the land of the lost from walking into the dungeon and coming out through the entrance into the PC's world. It wouldn't be able to go back, however, without the right coin. This would allow you to make the wilderness more interesting, creating legends about the dungeon, and perhaps foreshadowing future adventures. (Could get ideas from David Pulver's Caverns of the Chronomancer in Pyramid #3/56 or Pyramid Dungeon Fantasy Collected.)
  • Riffing off the previous idea, having weird beasties in the wilderness might also add to the mystery of the mundane dungeon upon their first visit. They might be expecting dinosaurs, primordial slime, and a steampunk construct, but all they find is the lair of some goblin-kin. This might be especially interesting if they see tracks coming out of the dungeon but no evidence of similar tracks inside.
If you run this, let us know how it goes. I'm intrigued.
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Old 05-02-2018, 02:27 PM   #3
Mister Negative
 
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Default Re: Coin-Op Dungeon

You are understanding the gate logic exactly as I had intended.

"Escapees" from the 'other dungeons' can show up, both intelligent and not. Strange beasties might escape. Strange sports of nature (blind, albino penguins and the like) sometimes get caught by local trappers. Weird things wash up dead on the riverbank. Half-mad survivors speaking no local language might wander into town.

The party might even be hired by such a non-local to take him back to 'his' dungeon and get him safely out 'his' exit.

My intention, once this gets off the ground (after we finish another campaign and I go back into the GM rotation) is that the PCs not even realize that there are different dungeons inhabiting the same space at first. They just think that there's a LOT of wild rumors about that weird old ruin outside of town.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:00 PM   #4
Anthony
 
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Default Re: Coin-Op Dungeon

I've run a gate-based campaign before, and it's pretty convenient for adventure design (its particularly helpful for troupe-style games, because it's easy to avoid stepping on other people's storylines), but I'm not sure why to limit it to a dungeon on the other side.
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Old 05-02-2018, 03:56 PM   #5
Harald387
 
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Default Re: Coin-Op Dungeon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
I'm not sure why to limit it to a dungeon on the other side.
Well, because this is Dungeon Fantasy, of course.
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Old 05-02-2018, 09:14 PM   #6
Stripe
 
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Default Re: Coin-Op Dungeon

Very cool idea, Mister Negative!

Similar to the action RPG Torchlight 2's "infinite dungeon"end game. Instead of putting a coin in a machine directly, you buy "maps" that go into the virtual-reality-like machine (e.g., "graveyard map," "temple map," "sewer map," etc.). Torchlight was made by the same team that made Diablo. It's basically a clone, but with a "mana punk" flavor to the fantasy.

I've been running a pure RAW GURPS DF/DF RPG multi-level dungeon ("Gorefest Dungeon") for about four years with the background that it's a video game. The background's very superficial, though. We don't break the fourth wall or anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Negative View Post
Admittedly, you lose some of the flavor of 'standard' megadungeon play. Stairs, ramps, and hidden passages to other levels get eliminated (or replaced by magical versions).
Do as I do and use a mixture: Level 1 is a floor of rooms and maze-like passages. Level 2 is a cave reached by a circular pit in the floor. PC's can take a portal back out again. Or, to the next level. The whole dungeon is reached by a portal in Town, but it only opens once per week. There are side quests in the "real world" as well.

Quote:
Complex interaction between various megadungeon factions is reduced (the orcs aren't going to encroach on the lizardmen if the orcs are in a different dungeon).
Which is a benefit to those with a fragile grasp on their willing suspension of disbelief.

Saves the GM a lot of time trying to come up with all sorts of dungeon ecology, society and logistics. Some of that is cool and you can do is as part of the dungeon. For example: "The orcs on level 1 hate the trolls on level 2." Other times, it's just annoying. "What was this demon of old doing standing in this room before I entered? How long was he here? How does he leave? Does he go to the bathroom ever?"

With a video-game-like setting, you can do as much of that as you'd like, then stop.

Quote:
Is it a creative idea? Is it terrible? What's wrong with it? Is it something you might like to use too?
In my experience, try not to plan too far ahead. Don't say, "The boss to the third level is a minotaur" unless you're about done with actually playing through the whole second level in actual live game-play with your group and have started to design the next out of necessity. Be very general when talking about the challenges ahead.

Spend your creative energies and design the current level. Don't design the next until you must.
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