Limited Limitations?

[Bruno]

Also known as:
"Bruno rambling to herself in public and then eventually getting around to the question"

Hypothetical character concept - a psionic character who, after a traumatic telepathic event, ends up "mentally segregating" what they regard as the "antisocial" parts of their personality and self-crippling their telepathic abilities and their memories of the events that led up to this.

The result is a Partially Amnesic character with Split Personality and mostly just Latent telepathy, but other powers intact to one extent or another. Both personalities have the quirk "Dislikes the other personality" - not self-destructive levels of animosity, but Personality A thinks Personality B is unreliable and potentially dangerous to others, and Personality B plain doesn't like sharing a brain with anyone.

So, on to weird limitations on the use of Powers!

If a power is easily accessible to one personality, and not accessible to the other, I'm thinking this is a basic "50% of the time" type Accessibility, for -20% (assuming only two personalities).

If a power is easily accessible to Personality A, and Personality A can let Personality B use it if A thinks B actually has a good reason this time, this seems to be a case of "Fickle for one personality, normal for the other" (or Unreliable, or whatever) which is Limiting a Limitation, which is a little odd - anyone know how this would work? I've got the feeling that multiplying them together, like a Limited Enhancement, isn't right. It clearly should be cheaper than the usual Limitation.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If a power is easily accessible to Personality A, and Personality A can let Personality B use it if A thinks B actually has a good reason this time, this seems to be a case of "Fickle for one personality, normal for the other" (or Unreliable, or whatever) which is Limiting a Limitation, which is a little odd - anyone know how this would work? I've got the feeling that multiplying them together, like a Limited Enhancement, isn't right. It clearly should be cheaper than the usual Limitation.

Isn't this an Either/Or Limitation?

[Fwibos]

I think Bruno is asking:
Personality A: can use it at will
Personality B: uses it but it is Fickle.

Slightly different than either/or, I think.

If I understand it correctly, the limitation "Fickle, half the time," would be (.2 x .5) or -10%. That's my guess, anyway.

[Purple Haze]

The point is that both -0.20 and -0.50 are larger than -0.10 = (-0.20 x -0.50) not smaller. The fair result would be -0.60 = (1.00 - (1.00 - 0.20) * (1.00 - 0.50)).

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Isn't this an Either/Or Limitation?

I had started out thinking that, but realized mid-ramble that it's sort of the opposite situation.

Originally Posted by Fwibos

I think Bruno is asking:
Personality A: can use it at will
Personality B: uses it but it is Fickle.

Slightly different than either/or, I think.

That's what I eventually realized I was describing - and I had to delete a few paragraphs of text when I realized it :)

So say, Frank is pyrokinetic. He likes fire and he's selfish about his fire powers. Irwin the other personality can't use the fire powers at all without Franks permission. Frank can use them whenever he dang well wants to, and often uses them to set puppies on fire because he's a horrible person and hates puppies. Irwin has to talk Frank into it (or catch him in a good mood) if he wants to set things on fire with his brain.

Irwin can't use normal reaction modifiers on Frank (they're really the same person after all, so Frank is unimpressed by Irwin's reputation), but he can try arguments like "I'm setting a puppy on fire. You LIKE setting puppies on fire!" and conversely would have a heck of a time convincing Frank to let him use the powers to save puppies.

That's probably technically somewhere between Fickle and Reaction Roll Required, in that Fickle doesn't seem to take circumstantial modifiers ever, whereas Reaction Roll Required takes ALL the usual modifiers AND allows Influence skill rolls - I think what I'd actually want is more like Fickle, in that it doesn't allow personal reaction modifiers or influence skills but does allow circumstantial modifiers.

But that's a side issue, the concept works just as well with REALLY Fickle powers, or Unreliable powers, or whatever else seems to fit how Frank the Fickle expresses his bad attitude towards Irwin (Backlash, where Frank punishes Irwin for using "Frank's" powers because Frank really doesn't like other people touching his things might be appropriate)

Originally Posted by Fwibos

If I understand it correctly, the limitation "Fickle, half the time," would be (.2 x .5) or -10%. That's my guess, anyway.

Originally Posted by Purple Haze

The point is that both -0.20 and -0.50 are larger than -0.10 = (-0.20 x -0.50) not smaller. The fair result would be -0.60 = (1.00 - (1.00 - 0.20) * (1.00 - 0.50)).

I'm confused, because -.60 is larger than -.50 - I also don't follow the numbers you have going on here, can you describe them?.

Going back to first principles: Fickle All The Time has to be more limiting than "Fickle half the time, the other half it works flawlessly". Therefore the Limited Limitation has to be a smaller limitation than Fickle - it has to give back less points because it's less limiting. Presuming Fickle -20%, that means the limited version has to be worth in the range of 0% to -19%

The question is sort of: Is it -10%, because that's half as Fickle, or is it -16%, because "half the time" is ALSO -20%, so 80% of -20% is is -16% (like a Limited Advantage would be). Or is it something else?

[B9anders]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If a power is easily accessible to one personality, and not accessible to the other, I'm thinking this is a basic "50% of the time" type Accessibility, for -20% (assuming only two personalities).

According to B110 it's actually -40%.

[Desthro]

You apply the limitation modifier to the limitation you are limiting.

If you are making the power MORE useful, then you reduce it, so +20% of -20% is -16%, if you are making it LESS useful you increase the value -20% of -20% is -24%.

[Gumby Bush]

Where -0.2 modified by -0.5 = X

-0.2<X<-0.5

So, what if we try (1-0.2)(-0.5)=-0.4 This works
Or, (1-0.5)(-0.2)=-0.1 This is not big enough
Or, -(-0.2/-0.5)=-2/5=-0.4 Again, works (my brain isn't tying itself in knots right now. Is this the same as the first one?)
Or -(-0.5/-0.2)=-5/2=-2.5 This most certainly doesn't work, way too big

So, using the first, where Y<Z<0 (100%-Z%)(Y%)=X%
Or with the third, where Y<Z<0 and X is your modifier: -(Z%)/(Y%)=X%
Any problems with either of these?

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by B9anders

According to B110 it's actually -40%.

How do you figure? According to B110, "“Only on women,” “Only on men,” or
anything else that covers about half of the population is worth -20%. "

Powers also has an explicit chart, listing 50% of the time as -20%.

[Christopher R. Rice]

Originally Posted by Bruno

How do you figure? According to B110, "“Only on women,” “Only on men,” or
anything else that covers about half of the population is worth -20%. "

Powers also has an explicit chart, listing 50% of the time as -20%.

Its under the Accessibility limitation, here to be precise:

Only while playing trumpet: -20%.
Only while flying, Only while
swimming, Only in hypnotic trance:
-30%.
Only by one side of split personality:
-40%.

Ghostdancer