Staff Zaps

[hcobb]

The Staff spell enchants the target of the spell to be an "occult weapon" (ITL 18) that costs one fatigue to inflict a flare of magical energy. As with most other enchantments this spell has no impact on ordinary physical uses of the enchanted item. (Other than the immunity to critical failures of the Staff II+ (ITL 23), and the combination of physical attack and occult attack as a single action with Staff IV+ (ITL 30))

The staff zap is the use of a magic item and not the casting of a spell (ITL 148), that apparently functions as per the casting of special spell, and hence has the same modifiers as a thrown spell, other than range. (ITL 140). See the note about using any magic item (including the Dagger-Staff) in HTH at Hexagram #9, page 3.

Thrown Spells have the same to-hit penalties for target type as thrown weapons (ITL 115), save that they never hit any target the wizard did not intend to hit.

The net result of all of this is that the staff zap doesn't get facing bonuses (as thrown weapons do not, see map example at ITL 114) and spells do not (ITL 106). But it is subject to visibility and evasiveness to-hit mods of the target.

I take the "The wizard must be holding or wearing the staff for it to be useful" note at ITL 148 to indicate that a worn staff can function as a mana battery, but that the occult zap requires that the staff be held in hand and ready.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Thrown Spells have the same to-hit penalties for target type as thrown weapons (ITL 115), save that they never hit any target the wizard did not intend to hit.

The net result of all of this is that the staff zap doesn't get facing bonuses (as thrown weapons do not, see map example at ITL 114) and spells do not (ITL 106). But it is subject to visibility and evasiveness to-hit mods of the target.

The rules for what attacks are subject to Dodge penalties (ITL 117) explicitly exempt all spells save Missile spells. The rules further state that Defend does not affect magical attacks. There is no evasiveness to-hit penalty for occult zaps.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

The staff zap is the use of a magic item and not the casting of a spell (ITL 148), that apparently functions as per the casting of special spell, and hence has the same modifiers as a thrown spell, other than range. (ITL 140). See the note about using any magic item (including the Dagger-Staff) in HTH at Hexagram #9, page 3.

The bolded part is precisely what is in question. Why does it apparently function as a special spell or as any other type of spell?

Hexagram #9 does evidently refer to the occult attack as "a spell cast using a magic item", but since there is no such spell as "occult attack", I frankly don't take that reference terribly literally.

Moreover, why on earth do you say (1) it's a special spell and (2) oh, but never mind about range? I guess that makes it a very special spell.

It seems to me, Henry, that the reason that you claim it's a special spell and yet ignore range is because (1) you want to cast into HTH with no fear of hitting an ally and (2) you just don't want range modifiers. But, wants aside, you ought to pick one consistent view or another. Either it really is a spell (and in particular a special spell) and so you get (1) but lose (2) or it's not a spell at all but an attack and so you lose (1) but you get (2).

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by phiwum

I've never applied range to any of the occult zaps. If you do, then an attack at an adjacent figure is at -1 adjDX, which makes it a worse attack for a young wizard. On the other hand, this makes the Staff III and higher zaps a bit more reasonable, with a net +2 adjDX for adjacent figures and +1 adjDX for figures two hexes away.

But (and pardon me for repeating myself) the occult zap is described as an attack, not a spell, so it's not clear to me that the discussion of range for special spells is relevant. You cast the special spell called Staff when you create the item, not when you use it to attack, near as I can figger.

If this weren't the case, then an IQ 13 wizard using Staff I wouldn't even need to point the staff to use the zap (assuming the pointing is a "gesture", which may be up for debate even if we accept the zap is a spell).

In "Questions Answered" in Hexagram 9, the staff's occult attack is described as a spell cast from a magic item. Given that, the most appropriate spell type for the zap seems to be Special, which is subject to range penalties unless otherwise mentioned. While this might make the occult attack worse than striking with a club-sized staff (which will suffer no range penalty and likely will do as good or better damage), it still allows for non-clubby "staves" like wand hair pins to be viable weapon, even at low levels.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

In "Questions Answered" in Hexagram 9, the staff's occult attack is described as a spell cast from a magic item. Given that, the most appropriate spell type for the zap seems to be Special, which is subject to range penalties unless otherwise mentioned. While this might make the occult attack worse than striking with a club-sized staff (which will suffer no range penalty and likely will do as good or better damage), it still allows for non-clubby "staves" like wand hair pins to be viable weapon, even at low levels.

I guess that the rules are changing as we go but, my interpretation of the occult attack was adjacent hexes for Staff 1&2. At Staff 3 it bypasses armor with a +3 DX and 2 hex range. There was no mention of range adjustments for the occult attack through Staff 5. It is listed as a (S)pecial spell.

I realize that ITL states that unless otherwise stated, adjust DX for range like that if thrown spells and that there is no mention of range DX adjustments in the Staff Spells. However, to me, that kind of defeats the advantage of having the staff spells. The occult attack range is limited to two hexes anyway.It's not like the wizard is going to be making this attack across the map. At a minimum, there should be no minus for the adjacent hex. I would consider house ruling it in that direction.

[hcobb]

Staff zap doesn't have the range of a Thrown Spell as so by ITL 140 it doesn't have the range adjustment either.

[Shostak]

Consider, though, that the occult attack can't be dodged or defended against, and, at higher levels, it bypasses worn or natural armor. The modest range penalty offsets those advantages a little.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Consider, though, that the occult attack can't be dodged or defended against, and, at higher levels, it bypasses worn or natural armor. The modest range penalty offsets those advantages a little.

There's valid arguments either direction. Looks like GM house rule territory.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by Shostak

In "Questions Answered" in Hexagram 9, the staff's occult attack is described as a spell cast from a magic item. Given that, the most appropriate spell type for the zap seems to be Special, which is subject to range penalties unless otherwise mentioned. While this might make the occult attack worse than striking with a club-sized staff (which will suffer no range penalty and likely will do as good or better damage), it still allows for non-clubby "staves" like wand hair pins to be viable weapon, even at low levels.

The phrasing in that passage is suggestive, but not explicit enough to settle the issue as far as I can tell.

A spell cast using a magic item (including an occult attack from a staff that is a dagger), would also be at -4 DX, and the +4 DX for physical attacks in hand-to-hand
combat would not apply.

I agree that this suggests the zap is "cast" using the staff. If so, then it should include the range penalty. Note as well that you explicitly get no facing bonus for this in HTH, so this suggests that spell-casting ignores facing in general (in addition to the effects of Dodge and Defend, as you pointed out earlier.

It also suggests, as Henry says, that you can use the occult zap to hit a target in HTH with no chance of hitting a friend.

I could live with that, though it contradicts the position I've taken before. And I suppose that even if the FAQ in Hexagram doesn't outright state "Occult zap is cast as a spell by using the staff", I suppose the balance of evidence is on that side.

But, if that's how we're going to interpret it, then the staff must (as you say) have range modifiers, even at one hex distance, for consistency's sake.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Staff zap doesn't have the range of a Thrown Spell as so by ITL 140 it doesn't have the range adjustment either.

This the passage you have in mind?

Originally Posted by ITL140

If a special method of DX adjustment for the spell is described, use it. Otherwise, treat range as for Thrown spells.

There is no "special method" of DX adjustment described, though there is a range limitation of one or two hexes. Hence, the literal text does not imply that there is no range adjustment.