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Old 03-31-2016, 12:07 PM   #21
GodBeastX
 
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

Personally I'm more interested in the stress aspects of personally having your world flipped upside down.

ATE is a great genre to use stress and derangement. People had comfortable first world problems that suddenly are gone. Sudden vast changes to a lifestyle can't be healthy mentally and a system to encourage people to seek the normality of their old life might be interesting. Get that stress relief on!
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Old 03-31-2016, 12:30 PM   #22
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anders View Post
Well, yes and no. What happens in an emergency is that we become more tribal - we become more likely to help other members of our group and more hostile to members of other groups. And there's also a tendency to step up behavior to root out traitors and free riders within our own group.
And don't forget ye olde Monkey Sphere. There are only so many people most are capable of considering an 'us'. Everyone else can very quickly become 'them'.
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Old 03-31-2016, 01:12 PM   #23
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Well, yes and no. What happens in an emergency is that we become more tribal - we become more likely to help other members of our group and more hostile to members of other groups.
Citation please.

The rush of international aide to America after 9/11 and after Katrina is an example of reaching out to members outside your tribal group.
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Old 03-31-2016, 03:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Citation please.

The rush of international aide to America after 9/11 and after Katrina is an example of reaching out to members outside your tribal group.
I'll get back to you, but notice that the people who gave in both cases were not the people who we attacked or harmed,. How did Americans react to 9/11? They were the ones who were attacked.
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Old 03-31-2016, 04:42 PM   #25
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It would be interesting to see how donations for charity in America changed in the aftermath of 9/11. My prediction would be that donations to outside charity went down while donations to charity inside America went up.
Donations to outside charity went way up.

See the graph on p.7 of the linked PDF from charity.org; private donations from Americans to "international affairs" causes increased quickly after 2001, jumping by 50% between 2001 and 2004.


Quote:
Well, yes and no. What happens in an emergency is that we become more tribal - we become more likely to help other members of our group and more hostile to members of other groups.
[Citation needed]

In particular, our intuitions are not reliable here. As my first link noted, there's widespread misunderstanding about how people actually react in disaster scenarios:

"the scientific understanding is at odds with common wisdom or what we are likely to read in the media."
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:18 PM   #26
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

Post-apoc is DF with better suspension of disbelief and better tech. That's one thing that I like. It's essentially an anarchy so players have almost absolute freedom of action, unlike in modern settings. They can do anything they like (and deal with consequences) without attracting SWAT teams.

I like the exploration aspect. And the survival aspect, by which I mean surviving by using other than combat skills (I'm a bit of an outdoorsman). Like some others, I'm interested in "non-wasteland" things like community building, farming, etc. So I'm really not interested in recapitulating Mad Max so much as AFTERMATH!.
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Old 03-31-2016, 10:09 PM   #27
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Originally Posted by acrosome View Post
Post-apoc is DF with better suspension of disbelief and better tech. That's one thing that I like. It's essentially an anarchy so players have almost absolute freedom of action, unlike in modern settings. They can do anything they like (and deal with consequences) without attracting SWAT teams.

I like the exploration aspect. And the survival aspect, by which I mean surviving by using other than combat skills.
Interesting points. I myself am beginning to be more curious about how wider use of skills beyond combat enhances game play in this genre compared to say Dungeon Fantasy. I mean I like fantasy a lot, but I'm also one of those people who is interested less in the dungeon in and of itself, but in what interesting things result from the dungeon (like interesting situations or even societies) and the exploration therein.

So in some ways I myself am warming up more to the post-apocalyptic genre I think.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:35 AM   #28
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Originally Posted by DCB View Post
Donations to outside charity went way up.

See the graph on p.7 of the linked PDF from charity.org; private donations from Americans to "international affairs" causes increased quickly after 2001, jumping by 50% between 2001 and 2004.
Shows what I know. ;D


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno View Post
Citation please.

The rush of international aide to America after 9/11 and after Katrina is an example of reaching out to members outside your tribal group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCB View Post
[Citation needed]

In particular, our intuitions are not reliable here. As my first link noted, there's widespread misunderstanding about how people actually react in disaster scenarios:

"the scientific understanding is at odds with common wisdom or what we are likely to read in the media."
The most well-studied example of this is the "Rally Around the Flag" effect. In the face of crisis, the presidential support ratings jump. For instance, Bush's support jumped from 50% to 85% in the aftermath of 9/11 and I don't remember him did anything spectacularly competent. Jonathan Haidt talks about Ingroup/Outgroup effect in The Righteous Mind and cites the Robbers Cave experiment (1954).
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Old 04-01-2016, 07:39 AM   #29
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

While this is interesting, we should also keep in mind that even "realistic" versions of AtE are about the aftermath of a collapse, not the aftermath of a disaster. The difference is that after a disaster the system reasserts itself (Barkerville is rebuilt, a new king is crowned, the refugees spread among neighbouring towns), but after a collapse it falls to pieces and something new has to be built. Collapses tend to be accompanied by wars, the breakup of old groups, and desperate struggles amongst different factions of survivors whereas disasters more often see the survivors cooperate.

For example, the farming societies of North-Eastern North America tried to deal with the blows from epidemic diseases, invasive fauna which disrupted their traditional food sources, strange new religions, and the ways that the opportunity to trade furs and pelts for iron arrowheads or muskets or cloth or jewelry upset the traditional balance between their groups. As far as we can see from the few sources which survive, they mostly tried very hard, and if they had faced less emergencies at once they might have succeeded.

The result was a long series of nasty wars in the 17th century, the formation of new polities and new identities and the death of old ones, and the wholescale transformation of large areas near the Atlantic from the "park-like" environment described by early European visitors into much denser and less cultivated woods. See any book on the background to King Philip's War, or Facing East from Indian Country for introductions.

And postapocalyptic adventure is not always a genre driven by realism anyways ...
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Old 04-01-2016, 09:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: [ATE] What makes you interested?

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Originally Posted by Polydamas View Post
While this is interesting, we should also keep in mind that even "realistic" versions of AtE are about the aftermath of a collapse, not the aftermath of a disaster.
The most important work is The Collapse of Complex Societies
By Joseph Tainter. He has many examples of collapse in the books and tries to develop an understanding of what the reaction to collapse looks like. It is not the same as a localized disaster, but the abandonment of complex social arrangements that do not solve immediate problems of safety and security.
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