Steve Jackson Games - Site Navigation
Home General Info Follow Us Search Illuminator Store Forums What's New Other Games Ogre GURPS Munchkin Our Games: Home

Go Back   Steve Jackson Games Forums > Roleplaying > GURPS

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2015, 09:35 AM   #31
Noctifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Kernersville, NC
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stripe View Post
Here's my 2010 thread, which is about exactly the same thing:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=73452
Even more of the useful! Thank you!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Varyon View Post
One problem is that you're going from DF-level cinematics to a more realistic setting. You'll want to be explicit that your campaign is more realistic than what they're used to, and also more lethal - they'll be more likely to appreciate the ability to engage a foe at range, even with the delays between attacks, once they understand how quickly things can go pear-shaped in melee. Running some example combats before the campaign starts will be extremely useful for you.
I've tried that, but my own learning curve is impeding it somewhat. They are, thankfully, understanding that I'm horribly rusty with GURPS (my 3ed experience was with Supers, to boot, so much more cinematic and high tech) and that I'm catching up on the nuances as well.
Noctifer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 09:41 AM   #32
Skarg
 
Join Date: May 2015
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Apart from the math errors, the advantages of bows are not in terms of damage/accuracy compared to hacking with a sword, but in terms of being able to shoot first, and not get easily parried. Once at sword range, of course it makes sense to use another weapon, or have someone else fight. An archer with no non-shooting combat skills is of course vulnerable.
Skarg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 09:55 AM   #33
Ulzgoroth
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

One place (not necessarily the most useful to delving PCs) where missile weapons are particularly advantageous is attacking from ambush.

Popping up out of nowhere at throat-cutting range is great, of course, but unless you're actually invisible most enemies aren't going to let you get that close without being noticed. If your effective attack distance is 10-20 yards rather than about 4, you're much more likely to score that initial attack on a surprised target. And if you don't like the odds after the initial volley, you have a several-yard head start from which to run away.


This may or may not be useful for your PCs. You probably could use it to demonstrate the merits of ranged capability to your players, though they might not appreciate a lesson in the form of being pincushioned by goblins.
__________________
I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.
Ulzgoroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 10:52 AM   #34
Kromm
GURPS Line Editor
 
Kromm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Montréal, Québec
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

As I've said in many other threads: "Bows are great if the GM starts a reasonable percentage of encounters at bow range." That's only unrealistic in dense vegetation, urban settings, and indoors/underground. Featureless plains, exposed mountainsides, bleak arctic ice fields, endless rolling deserts, and open ocean between ships collectively account for the overwhelming majority of terrain on most worlds. Unless the GM is being a jerk and making all enemies championship sprinters or ninjas with epic levels of Camouflage and Stealth, or forcing the PCs to fight all battles in 10'×10' rooms and dense jungle, the vast majority of clashes ought to start with the archers getting several "free shots" before melee begins. An ordinary Joe has better-than-even odds of making Vision rolls to see enemies in plain sight out to 70 yards, so start there – even fast sprinters will need 10 turns to close that gap, and your melee guys can run five turns out to meet them and hold them up for a few extra shots.

On the other hand, if you plan to use a bow as your primary weapon in a melee without cinematic abilities to enable it, you're kind of screwed because that's completely and utterly unrealistic. You need the cinematic stuff like Heroic Archer and Weapon Master (Bow) to compete there because you're pounding a square peg (archery) into a round hole (hand-to-hand combat). That isn't any less fair that kung fu masters needing ranged chi blasts in order to fight enemy archers who start out where it'll take 10 turns of running to reach them, or wizards requiring Mana Enhancer to cast spells where there's no mana, or air-breathing heroes having to use water-breathing spells and potions to fight underwater. All characters have natural environments, and if they want to operate outside them, they must invest in extraordinary intervention of some kind.

The idea that bows work in a melee comes entirely from cinematic sources, like Legolas as depicted in the Lord of the Rings movies and the amazon class in the old Diablo II video game. When the going gets cinematic, the cinematic get going. The realistic need not apply, and will get owned if they try.
__________________
Sean "Dr. Kromm" Punch <kromm@sjgames.com>
GURPS Line Editor, Steve Jackson Games
My LiveJournal [Just GURPS News][Just The Company]
Kromm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 12:23 PM   #35
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailanka View Post
More importantly, greater skill with the bow increases effective range. A person with a skill 10, without aiming, has a 50/50 chance of hitting someone 2 yards away. Someone with skill 20, without aiming, has a 50/50 chance of hitting someone 100 yards away.
...
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?
I can do that and there's no way I'm using anything other than default from a not so nice Dexterity score.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.

Last edited by Flyndaran; 07-17-2015 at 12:28 PM.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 12:26 PM   #36
brianfb
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?
I can do that and there's no way I'm using anything other than than default from a not so nice Dexterity score.
Funny because its true.
__________________
My Campaign Website
brianfb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 12:32 PM   #37
ErhnamDJ
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: OK
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
I can do that and there's no way I'm using anything other than default from a not so nice Dexterity score.
While enemy soldiers are stabbing at you with a pike, a few hundred enemy cavalry are bearing down on you, and a cannonball just took out six of your cousins right next to you?

I imagine there's a large bonus, like with guns, for being in a non-stressful situation.
__________________
"For the rays, to speak properly, are not colored. In them there is nothing else than a certain power and disposition to stir up a sensation of this or that color." —Isaac Newton, Optics

My blog.
ErhnamDJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 12:35 PM   #38
Flyndaran
Untagged
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Forest Grove, Beaverton, Oregon
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErhnamDJ View Post
While enemy soldiers are stabbing at you with a pike, a few hundred enemy cavalry are bearing down on you, and an enemy cannonball just took out six of your cousins right next to you?

I imagine there's a large bonus, like with guns, for being in a non-stressful situation.
I couldn't walk a straight line if I'm failing the Fright Check all that would cause. Yet I don't see anyone calling for a skill roll to walk.

Six feet is simply trivial for anyone capable of moving their arms in any coordinated fashion.
__________________
Beware, poor communication skills. No offense intended. If offended, it just means that I failed my writing skill check.
Flyndaran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 12:51 PM   #39
ericthered
Hero of Democracy
 
ericthered's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: far from the ocean
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

The key here is to remember the timing. If you take more than one second, you're aiming (and have +3, your new target is 7 yards away). If you're calmly standing still, that's +1 for all out attack (and your new target is 3 yards away). Based on some small experience with bows and more experience with nerf guns and furniture at ranges of 6-10 feet, I'm not inclined to find it unrealistic at all.
__________________
Worlds Beyond Earth -- my blog
ericthered is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2015, 12:57 PM   #40
Mailanka
 
Mailanka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Eindhoven, the Netherlands
Default Re: [Combat]: Do you bow, bro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran View Post
6 feet away? 6 feet away? Who that doesn't suffer from a serious nerve disorder cannot hit a man sized target from 6 feet away even if under excited pressure?
I can do that and there's no way I'm using anything other than default from a not so nice Dexterity score.
Film yourself shooting someone who is stabbing you and send it in to the SJGames errata department.

(There are numerous little... weirdnesses regarding ranged combat in GURPS. Not that I want to declare it singularly bad in the RPG world, because it's not, it's just with the level of detail it has, some of the abstractions stick out. Don't get me started on RoF or, as I've recently discovered, jets and lasers)
__________________
My Blog: Mailanka's Musing. Currently Playing: Psi-Wars, a step-by-step exploration of building your own Space Opera setting, inspired by Star Wars.
If you want to support me, check out my Patreon!
Mailanka is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bow

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Fnords are Off
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.