G4e Tech Levels for Merlin, Homeline

[prosfilaes]

Originally Posted by maximara

On a related issue comparing Fantasy 1e to 4e it looks like Magery 0 increased the number of mages by a factor of 5. (from 1:1000 in low mana Yrth to 1:200 in low mana Roma Arcana)

How does that follow? The number of mages is a world dependent thing, not a system dependent thing. Even if they had changed the number of mages in Yrth, that still doesn't mean the number of mages in Technomancer would change.

So doesn't this also change things somewhat if we are bring Technomancer to 4e?

I'd say a lot of the people who used to have Magery 1 now have Magery 0, instead of increasing the number of mages.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by prosfilaes

Whether or not Japan would have surrendered has absolutely nothing to do with TL.

Actually as suggested in the TimeMaster PT-109 suppliment it could have a big effect on the TL. If the father of some inventor died in the invasion of Japan then his inventions would have either not been made or made by someone else at a different time. The Greeks were right when they imagined history being 'woven' by the Fates - pull on a thread and you risk unweaving the whole tapastry.

[chadu]

Originally Posted by maximara

I am wonder where the play tester were on this one (And Madlands)

GURPS Fantasy II: The Madlands is utter brilliance. Period.

CU

[maximara]

Originally Posted by chadu

GURPS Fantasy II: The Madlands is utter brilliance. Period.

At least with all its flaws Technomancer was not a setting where if the critters and your fellow human didn't kill you the derainged A.A. Milne inspired deities in all odds would. SD Anderson in the "So, what's the *worst* GURPS book you own?" thread summed up the whole setting as 'anti-adventure'. SUre there were good ideas in there but as a setting the Madlands sucked.

[chadu]

Originally Posted by maximara

Sure there were good ideas in there but as a setting the Madlands sucked.

I disagree. I think it's pretty good.

I would have played up the "play an atypical tribe" element or "play an outsider/foreigner" element a little more, but that's about it.

Your Mileage Seems to Vary.

CU

[maximara]

Another problem with bring Technomancer to 4e (and not just in term of TL) is that things have changed so such from 3e. Take Technomancer's comment on page 77's sidebar about it not using Voodoo's (Later Spirits) Ritual Magic system. But in 3e ritual magic was not driven by mana nor Magery. In 4e Magery (Ritual) and Power Investiture split aspects of Voodoo's magic system: Power Investiture took the idea of eliminating mana (but replaced with Sancitity) while Magery (Ritual) took the path mechanics but retained the mana requirement.

So in 4e terms wouldn't magic opperate differently on Merlin? If they could wouldn't demons grant Power Investiture and even with they can't there are still Demonic Contracts and Black Magic (M156) to contend with. And if there are demons running around giving out such contracts then why as per an In Nomine crossover idea would there not be angels with Angelic Contracts and White Magic? These things would royally mess up the TL scale.

If you really want to mess things up you can have Technomancer-like worlds where the manafall happened for a different reason and much earlier. Halley's Comet in 1910, the Tunguska Event of 1908, or the 1178 astrioid hitting the moon resulting in a high mana zone centered at Canterbury. These settings will have really different TL for our own world and odds are events will not happen per our world.

[prosfilaes]

Originally Posted by maximara

Another problem with bring Technomancer to 4e (and not just in term of TL) is that things have changed so such from 3e. Take Technomancer's comment on page 77's sidebar about it not using Voodoo's (Later Spirits) Ritual Magic system. But in 3e ritual magic was not driven by mana nor Magery. In 4e Magery (Ritual) and Power Investiture split aspects of Voodoo's magic system: Power Investiture took the idea of eliminating mana (but replaced with Sancitity) while Magery (Ritual) took the path mechanics but retained the mana requirement.

So in 4e terms wouldn't magic opperate differently on Merlin?

No. The world is what it is; the RPG is merely a model of the underlying world. The mechanics should change to fit the world, not the other way around. You wouldn't give Frodo magical powers just because the rules said so, would you?

[maximara]

Originally Posted by prosfilaes

No. The world is what it is; the RPG is merely a model of the underlying world. The mechanics should change to fit the world, not the other way around. You wouldn't give Frodo magical powers just because the rules said so, would you?

True but if you think about giving what we are told Magery (Ritual), Demonic Contracts and Black Magic (M156) would make sence for the Technomancer setting. Remember that there were mages before the Hellstorm and according to legend some were able to summon up demons. But Planar Summons under the 'nromal' system requires 10 spells from 10 different colleges which doesn't not fit the legend very where where one 'ritual' is learned and the deal struck.

If we assume as Technomacer that these stories have some basis in historical fact then Magery (Ritual) makes a great deal more sence than 'normal' Magery.

[Southern Cross]

Perhaps the Hellstorm altered reality to the point where Ritual Magic no longer functioned?After all,psionic powers don't work on Merlin,so perhaps Ritual Magic doesn't work there either.

[maximara]

Originally Posted by Southern Cross

Perhaps the Hellstorm altered reality to the point where Ritual Magic no longer functioned?After all,psionic powers don't work on Merlin,so perhaps Ritual Magic doesn't work there either.

Except that IIRC it is stated that the 'old guard' mages (ie the Magery (Ritual) bunch) found out their spells worked much better and from the lightning like way spell development it looks like that this old guard's knowledge was useful (something it would not be if the majority of magic they knew stopped working). Another problem are 'packs with the devil' which fits Power Investiture all too well.

Technomancer's statement only prevents Voodoo magic from working but that system was not really streamlined until Spirits which introduced the shortlived Ritual Adept advatange. Basicly the problem is that in 4e the Voodoo/Spirits system no longer exists as apects of it were moved to Magery based Ritual Magic (which Voodoo/Spirits isn't) and Power Investiture (which again Voodoo/Spirits isn't). Then you have the constant references to GURPS Magic which in 4e does include Ritual Magic and Power Investiture options, never mind that 4e changed in the way explosives (and therefore explosive spells) work totally messing up the balance for such spells.

Take Shaped-Charge Fireball Missile for example, compared to Explosive Fireball+Penetrating Spell (2d+8) that spell is way too cheap on the low end and way too expensive on the high end. Similarly compared to the new explosion rules (B414) High-Explosive Fireball Missile is now a total FUBAR doing too much damage close to the center and damage cutting out way too soon. At a minimum under 4e rules High-Explosive Fireball Missile has a chance to hit anything within 12 yards and if you are able to max out the spell not much within 48 yards (!) is safe. For comparison the D&D spell fireball only has a range of 20 feet or not even 7 yards. Pretty much all the damage dealing spells are messed up and would need reworking to to bring it up to speed with 4e.