Meat Cleavers

[Xenarthral]

GURPS Goblins p. 98
Marginally different from a hatchet.

[The Colonel]

I'd say you're using axe/mace and that the cleaver fits the description of an axe - plus the butcher's splitting cleaver (the big, two handed one) would do pretty well as a battle axe. It's a large, unbalanced cutting blade on a handle, so axe would have to do it - probably at a penalty in the case of the one handed cleaver because the handle is so small.
IIRC the Chinese also have a knife that looks like a cleaver, but is a lot more versatile.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by RyanW

You might be able to get a useful thrust by catching with the corner, but I would say no thrusting. It isn't built for combat, so maybe a -1 or -2 to attack. By the time the cleaver comes out animals don't normally have much fight (or blood, entrails, or anything else) left in them, so butchers normally use telegraphic AOA.

I've used a cleaver to kill poultry and it was better suited to that task than a hatchet. Against a human opponent, I think the extra reach and leverage of the hatchet would make it better, but I don't think the cleaver deserves a skill penalty.

I don't think any exisitng weapon seems quite right. It's damage shouldn't be as high as a small axe, but I think it should have an unbalanced parry, unlike the small falchion or hatchet.

How about this?

KNIFE (DX-4, Force Sword-3, Main-Gauche-3, or Shortsword-3)
Weapon		Damage	Reach	Parry	Cost	Weight	ST
Cleaver		sw cut	1	0U	$100	1.5	7
or		thr cr	1	0	-	-	7

[Mgellis]

Originally Posted by Perfect Organism

How about this?

KNIFE (DX-4, Force Sword-3, Main-Gauche-3, or Shortsword-3)
Weapon		Damage	Reach	Parry	Cost	Weight	ST
Cleaver		sw cut	1	0U	$100	1.5	7
or		thr cr	1	0	-	-	7

I agree that it should be treated as a knife. You're making it a little heavy, though. I looked up some hatchets and some meat cleavers for weight, length, etc. A hatchet is longer and weighs about twice as much as a meat cleaver...most meat cleavers appear to be roughly .75 lbs. Call it 1 lb. and treat it as a large knife that is optimized like for chopping.

I would give it sw-1 cut and th cr, based on the damage for a large knife, and for brass knuckles, and assuming it is optimized for cutting and chopping attacks.

Butchers not only can make all-out attacks, but the target is usually braced against a wooden cutting block, so that probably increases the effect a bit compared to combat.

I hope this helps.

Mark

[Collective_Restraint]

Originally Posted by Ed the Coastie

So...meat cleavers?

Wouldn't that weapon be already statted in GURPS Horror ? It's a staple in horror themes, no ? I know the book is 3e but it could provide guidance on what it should be.

[Ubiquitous]

I'll throw in for Axe because Falchion's just seem too big as a rule, but then if she wants the anime type of Cleaver it'd be that big, so I'd say ask about how big and use one of the other after you know.

Originally Posted by Ed the Coastie

her character (which is always named May Harada, regardless of genre)

Always? I get a player who invariably uses either A) Jin when he doesn't care or B) Alexander Rosewood if he's feeling creative. She never switches up? Not even a Jay Marada or a Kay Karada?

(Please note my wicked chuckle, as I contemplate her finding out just how poor a weapon a meat cleaver actually is...)[/QUOTE]

As compared to what? In a knife-fight I imagine it'd carry a win since Cut damage isn't bad and I imagine it'd get a +1, 2 or even 3* for that, and it's no worse against parrying swords or bullets than any other small knife.

Unless she's expecting to take down some gunslinging enemies using it, in which case learning her might be a good idea.

*EDIT: After reading all the ninja posts above this one I have apperantly grossly overestimated.

[jacobmuller]

Martial Arts does list it as descriptive for some other weapons (parang?): "Small Falchion" on page 229 but that's 2lb ST8.
There's a damage listing for it as an improvised throwing weapon, page 60ish.

[Anders]

Weapon weights are a hobby-horse for Dan Howard. The weapons in MA are weight-calibrated to fit in with the other weapons. More accurate weapon weights (all together now!) will be given in Low-Tech!

[Fish]

Originally Posted by Mgellis

I agree that it should be treated as a knife. You're making it a little heavy, though.

I was going to say that's nowhere near heavy enough! I've held an antique meat cleaver in my hands, not one of those chintzy modern stamped steel blades that they call "cleavers" but a real honest-to-goodness blade meant for cutting bone. They're weighed heavily toward the head so you get lots of leverage on a swing and they're wicked instruments. They're designed to shear through meat without much resistance.

[Diogenes]

Back in 3e times, I played a butcher in an post-holocaust game who had saved his cleaver from the catastrophe (well, it was a plague, so that wasn't the problem -- it was getting it into and out of the quarantine camp). That cleaver felt very correctly as hatched with unchanged stats.
I'd do that, too, in 4e.