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Old 02-03-2010, 11:11 AM   #21
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

To get around that, you have to switch on various genre-specific reality-bending rules.

Or you can play a game which has those as part of its basic setup, which I will argue GURPS hasn't. GURPS works very well with its basic "heroic realism" (vaguely realistic rules, but being buff enough means you can triumf anyway), but when you have different basic assumptions, I think you are better served with playing something different. This is not a criticism of either GURPS nor different games; I hang here for a reason and I play both.

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Old 02-03-2010, 03:04 PM   #22
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

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Originally Posted by sieurin View Post
Or you can play a game which has those as part of its basic setup, which I will argue GURPS hasn't.
Of course it hasn't. The G stands for GENERIC. As soon as you put genre-specific rules in its "basic setup" it is no longer generic. GURPS is designed to be modular. You use the parts of the system that suit the type of game you want to play. It is much preferable to having to learn a whole new game system every time you want to play something different.
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Old 02-04-2010, 12:57 AM   #23
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

oops my bad,

overlooked that Suffer a major wound (HP/3 head). Hobbits have to deal Orc HP/3 + DR2 (skuil)to force a HT roll vs stun.

Surprised skulls are not more sensitive than other extremities to being jostled.
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Old 02-04-2010, 02:42 AM   #24
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

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Originally Posted by nik1979 View Post
oops my bad,

overlooked that Suffer a major wound (HP/3 head). Hobbits have to deal Orc HP/3 + DR2 (skuil)to force a HT roll vs stun.

Surprised skulls are not more sensitive than other extremities to being jostled.
Isn't Major Wounds HP/2? Are there different limits for what counts as Major on nasty locations? I thought that was modelled by giving the nasty location a nasty modifier to the HT roll?

So the hobbts need to do a *lot* of damage, since the orc has DR4-5 for a metal helmet, DR2 for the skull and they need to dop HP/2 damage after that, in order to force a HT-10 roll. But less if they target Chinks in Armour. So high skill only helps some.
And wouldn't Hobbits have a base ST of 7 (IIRC from the 3rd ed Fantasy Folk supplement). That's a lot of luck.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:14 AM   #25
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

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Originally Posted by nik1979 View Post
oops my bad,

overlooked that Suffer a major wound (HP/3 head). Hobbits have to deal Orc HP/3 + DR2 (skuil)to force a HT roll vs stun.
Not quite, no. Any blow that causes enough damage to normally cause a shock penalty, to the head (Including skull) or vitals (And possibly some other locations) forces a HT roll to avoid stunning. A major wound (A single injury of over HP/2, or any crippling injury) to any location forces a HT roll to avoid stunning, at an additional penalty for certain locations (-5 for vitals and face, -10 for skull).
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:40 AM   #26
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

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Isn't Major Wounds HP/2? Are there different limits for what counts as Major on nasty locations? I thought that was modelled by giving the nasty location a nasty modifier to the HT roll?

So the hobbts need to do a *lot* of damage, since the orc has DR4-5 for a metal helmet, DR2 for the skull and they need to dop HP/2 damage after that, in order to force a HT-10 roll. But less if they target Chinks in Armour. So high skill only helps some.
And wouldn't Hobbits have a base ST of 7 (IIRC from the 3rd ed Fantasy Folk supplement). That's a lot of luck.
Well, with a high level of Throwing Art (say in the 15-16 range) and maybe some Striking ST (to represent strong throwing abilities), a hobbit is probably dealing 1d-1 to 1d in damage. (Basic thrust +2 for Throwing Art, maybe -1 for a smaller stone.) If, like Kromm says, they take a targeted attack technique, they would have a decent chance of doing some damage. Remembering that hobbits usually shoot from a safe place (like say the back of an ent) I think it makes them fairly effective. Bilbo, having a magic ring, naturaly has an unfair advantage here.
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Old 02-04-2010, 08:05 AM   #27
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

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Originally Posted by Ultraviolet View Post
Isn't Major Wounds HP/2? Are there different limits for what counts as Major on nasty locations? I thought that was modelled by giving the nasty location a nasty modifier to the HT roll?

So the hobbts need to do a *lot* of damage, since the orc has DR4-5 for a metal helmet, DR2 for the skull and they need to dop HP/2 damage after that, in order to force a HT-10 roll. But less if they target Chinks in Armour. So high skill only helps some.
And wouldn't Hobbits have a base ST of 7 (IIRC from the 3rd ed Fantasy Folk supplement). That's a lot of luck.
If you are using Hit-location rules extremities have a lower "threshold" HP/3 AND wounding modifiers of all attacks are x4! (B399). So a Crushing Rock has x4 damage if can penetrate skull.

Strange that the face doesn't have a wounding modifier. (I'd apply it in my games, the face is a pretty sensitive set of organs). An Orc with ST12 can take 3 dmg to the face before rolling stun. An OX can take 8 dmg. The average person can take 2.

A proficient brawler with strength fit enough for military service (ST10) can deal as much as 1d-1 with a mighty/strong punch to the face (average dmg 2.5) a 50% chance of stunning. Although, with a dedicated attack, it would have just been 1d-3, 16% chance of stunning (a roll of a 6).
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

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Originally Posted by nik1979 View Post

If you are using Hit-location rules extremities have a lower "threshold" HP/3 AND wounding modifiers of all attacks are x4! (B399). So a Crushing Rock has x4 damage if can penetrate skull.
The head isn't an extremity. In rules terms, your extremities are your hands and feet; your limbs are your arms and legs; and everything else is what it is, be that torso, neck, head, skull, or whatever. So it's correct that the skull gives ×4 wounding, but not correct that damage over HP/3 causes a major wound there; you need to do better than HP/2.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:18 PM   #29
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

Nik, you should re-read the "Major Wounds" and "Knockdown and Stunning" rules on B420.

A major wound is any single injury of more than 1/2 your HP, or any crippling injury.

A stun roll is made any time you suffer a major wound, or are struck in the head or vitals for enough injury to cause a shock penalty, with modifiers including a -5 for major wound to the vitals or face, or -10 for a major wound to the skull or eyes (Plus HPT and LPT modifiers).

So for a 12HP orc (Or average human), 1 point of injury to the face will result in a stun check (The Ox, at 27HP, requires 2 points to reach the first -1 shock penalty (HP/10, drop all fractions), so 2 injury results in a stun check). So that average brawler has a 5-in-6 chance of forcing the average human opponent to make a stun check when he hits them in the face.

For skull blows to that 12HP orc, 3 damage results in 4 injury (After the 2DR), resulting in a normal stun check (Blow to a "head" location for enough to cause a shock penalty). 4 damage, resulting in 8 injury after DR, is a major wound, and forces a stun check at -10, probably knocking the orc unconcious.

And for an injury to the eye of that orc, any injury of 2 points or more cripples the eye, a major wound, and forces a stun roll at -10 (For being a major wound to the eye or brain). Any injury of only 1 point doesn't cripple the eye, but would force an unpenalized stun check (Again, enough injury to a "head" location to cause a shock penalty).
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:13 PM   #30
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Default Re: Hobbit Stone Throwing?

In the case of the original example -- Bilbo knocking Great Spiders from the trees -- you don't necessarily need to do a ton of damage. You just need to be able to Stun the spider long enough for it to fall off its tree branch. At its size, the fall will probably do more damage than the stone anyway. (Though there is at least one mention in The Hobbit of a stone killing a spider dead immediately ... critical hit, perhaps?)
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