Highest real-life strength in GURPS

Wicked Lurker · 01-04-2007, 01:38 PM

It seems that, when GURPS ST score is converted and compared to real-life values, a world-record breaker could come by with ST 14 easily (which surprises me).

Please falsify the following considerations:

GURPS assumes you can

lift a weight from the ground
with 2 hands
above your head
in 4 seconds.
up to BLx8 lbs.

Factors to consider are Lifting Skill, Extra Effort and the total ST+Lifting ST.

The closest competition that can match this seems to be the snatch.
The weight is lifted from the ground here, finished overhead, two hands are used and the whole precedure usually takes 3-4 seconds from start to finish.

The current World Record is at 469.6 lbs (213kg).
This record is at the highest weight class (105+ kg bodyweight).

Now someone at this level of expertise should probably have a skill that is among the highest possible. I assumed an effective Lifting Skill (modified by all TDM that may apply) of 16.

Lifters seem to use Extra Effort since they are exhausted after a few lifts.
I assume that a World-class athlete will attempt and frequently succeed at a Will roll with -2 penalty.

If we now test all of this with ST 14 (including Lifting ST) and assume a fairly good roll at the lifting check (a 8) we get:

BL = ROUND((14)^2 / 5) * 1.5
BL = 58
8xBL = 470 lbs. (213 kg)

14 .. ST

1.5 .. Extra Effort +10% BL for Will-2
Lifting Skill Roll made by 8, +40% BL
Total +50% or factor 1.5

Some of the ST14 will probably be Lifting ST...

Taking all kinds of variations into account this may or may not beat the world record. Can we deduct from this that the max. realistic ST in terms of lifting for humans should be about 14?

Error corrected

RedMattis · 01-04-2007, 01:49 PM

I think This thread might be useful to you. Attributes are discussed towards the end of the page

Wicked Lurker · 01-04-2007, 01:54 PM

Kromm uses 17-18 here for "historical bests" and I think a World record would qualify for that title. The math up there shows 14 maybe 15.

MIB 1473 · 01-04-2007, 02:06 PM

The Lifting skill isn't realistic. Obviously technique matters, but 5% per point of success is absurd. Even 1% would be generous.

By the way, treating Max Lift as equivalent to maximum squat yields pretty believable results (if a bit high at "average" levels).

KDLadage · 01-04-2007, 03:15 PM

Wow! I have to go back and read Lifting skill. I have not had a character use it yes, but I thought it was +5% period, not +5% per point of success...

naloth · 01-04-2007, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KDLadage

Wow! I have to go back and read Lifting skill. I have not had a character use it yes, but I thought it was +5% period, not +5% per point of success...

You can further double this to +10% per point using Extra Effort rules if you're willing to burn a little fatigue.

Wicked Lurker · 01-05-2007, 01:47 AM

.. and even if you drop Extra Effort all together.

Rolling a 6 on your Lifting Skill will still give you the World Record here.

Stupid Jedi · 01-05-2007, 08:34 AM

If you say 14-15 ST with appropriate skills and/or extra effort can give you world records, it makes ST in line with other attributes. This way 15 ST or 15 DX is "amazing" which I equate with being at the peak of human ability.

But, I agree with other posters that Lifting/Extra Effort is not realistic. The question is: was it meant to be? Personally, I have done away with the Lifting skill and allow my players to buy Lifting ST instead. I also don't use Extra Effort: while it seems dramatically appropriate, I find the mechanics of it way too open to abuse and misinterpretation.

So, all you have to do is adjust your level of "realism" as you wish. For a world record without Lifting skill or Extra Effort, ST 17-18 is the highest real-life ST. With those rules, it's 14-15.

jahn · 01-05-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wicked Lurker

Kromm uses 17-18 here for "historical bests" and I think a World record would qualify for that title. The math up there shows 14 maybe 15.

I'm not sure about this. Can a heavyweight lifter hit as hard as Mike Tyson in his prime? Can he take as much punishment as... well someone who can take a lot of punishment? I think it's probably no to both. ST is not just lifting things.

Icelander · 01-05-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jahn

I'm not sure about this. Can a heavyweight lifter hit as hard as Mike Tyson in his prime? Can he take as much punishment as... well someone who can take a lot of punishment? ST is not just lifting things.

No and yes.

If the heavyweight lifter is massive (which is universally true in my experience), he has a lot of HP. He might not have a high HT or good Will, however, so he might fold before he's physically destroyed. But there are RL records about steroid-enhanced, very beefy men on PCP who exhibit characteristics we would recognise as high HP in GURPS.

But hitting hard is a function of training as well as ST, which is why Mike Tyson in his prime gets a +2/per die for having Boxing at DX+2. That means that he probably hits harder than someone who has a higher ST than he does.

01-04-2007, 01:38 PM	#1
Wicked Lurker Join Date: Mar 2006	Highest real-life strength in GURPS It seems that, when GURPS ST score is converted and compared to real-life values, a world-record breaker could come by with ST 14 easily (which surprises me). Please falsify the following considerations: GURPS assumes you can lift a weight from the ground with 2 hands above your head in 4 seconds. up to BLx8 lbs. Factors to consider are Lifting Skill, Extra Effort and the total ST+Lifting ST. The closest competition that can match this seems to be the snatch. The weight is lifted from the ground here, finished overhead, two hands are used and the whole precedure usually takes 3-4 seconds from start to finish. The current World Record is at 469.6 lbs (213kg). This record is at the highest weight class (105+ kg bodyweight). Now someone at this level of expertise should probably have a skill that is among the highest possible. I assumed an effective Lifting Skill (modified by all TDM that may apply) of 16. Lifters seem to use Extra Effort since they are exhausted after a few lifts. I assume that a World-class athlete will attempt and frequently succeed at a Will roll with -2 penalty. If we now test all of this with ST 14 (including Lifting ST) and assume a fairly good roll at the lifting check (a 8) we get: BL = ROUND((14)^2 / 5) * 1.5 BL = 58 8xBL = 470 lbs. (213 kg) 14 .. ST 1.5 .. Extra Effort +10% BL for Will-2 Lifting Skill Roll made by 8, +40% BL Total +50% or factor 1.5 Some of the ST14 will probably be Lifting ST... Taking all kinds of variations into account this may or may not beat the world record. Can we deduct from this that the max. realistic ST in terms of lifting for humans should be about 14? Error corrected __________________ My GURPS tools: INDEX IMP, RANDOM MONSTER GENERATOR, Combat cheat sheets ONE and TWO.. ☼Online courses and free stuff on GM-ing☼ Last edited by Wicked Lurker; 01-04-2007 at 02:06 PM.

01-04-2007, 01:49 PM	#2
RedMattis Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sweden, Stockholm	Re: Highest real-life strength in GURPS I think This thread might be useful to you. Attributes are discussed towards the end of the page __________________ "Prohibit the taking of omens, and do away with superstitious doubts. Then, until death itself comes, no calamity need be feared"

01-04-2007, 01:54 PM	#3
Wicked Lurker Join Date: Mar 2006	Re: Highest real-life strength in GURPS Kromm uses 17-18 here for "historical bests" and I think a World record would qualify for that title. The math up there shows 14 maybe 15. __________________ My GURPS tools: INDEX IMP, RANDOM MONSTER GENERATOR, Combat cheat sheets ONE and TWO.. ☼Online courses and free stuff on GM-ing☼

01-04-2007, 02:06 PM	#4
MIB 1473 Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	Re: Highest real-life strength in GURPS The Lifting skill isn't realistic. Obviously technique matters, but 5% per point of success is absurd. Even 1% would be generous. By the way, treating Max Lift as equivalent to maximum squat yields pretty believable results (if a bit high at "average" levels).

01-04-2007, 03:15 PM	#5
KDLadage Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Upper Marlboro, MD	Re: Highest real-life strength in GURPS Wow! I have to go back and read Lifting skill. I have not had a character use it yes, but I thought it was +5% period, not +5% per point of success... __________________ K. David Ladage Family Man, Writer The Arcanum -- 30th Anniversary Edition

01-05-2007, 01:47 AM	#7
Wicked Lurker Join Date: Mar 2006	Re: Highest real-life strength in GURPS .. and even if you drop Extra Effort all together. Rolling a 6 on your Lifting Skill will still give you the World Record here. __________________ My GURPS tools: INDEX IMP, RANDOM MONSTER GENERATOR, Combat cheat sheets ONE and TWO.. ☼Online courses and free stuff on GM-ing☼

01-05-2007, 08:34 AM	#8
Stupid Jedi Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Edmonton, AB, CA	Re: Highest real-life strength in GURPS If you say 14-15 ST with appropriate skills and/or extra effort can give you world records, it makes ST in line with other attributes. This way 15 ST or 15 DX is "amazing" which I equate with being at the peak of human ability. But, I agree with other posters that Lifting/Extra Effort is not realistic. The question is: was it meant to be? Personally, I have done away with the Lifting skill and allow my players to buy Lifting ST instead. I also don't use Extra Effort: while it seems dramatically appropriate, I find the mechanics of it way too open to abuse and misinterpretation. So, all you have to do is adjust your level of "realism" as you wish. For a world record without Lifting skill or Extra Effort, ST 17-18 is the highest real-life ST. With those rules, it's 14-15. __________________ "Learn from the mistakes of others - you can never live long enough to make them all yourself."