Why is Combat Reflexes such a good deal?

[pawsplay]

It doesn't even have the mild drawback it used to.

[Donny Brook]

I'll bite -- what drawback?

[pawsplay]

It's been a while, but I think it used to say that you had to react before you had time to think.

[Anthony]

It's debatable how much is combat reflexes being a good deal and how much is the components of combat reflexes being bad deals.

Oddly, combat reflexes only appeared in its current form in 3e. Prior to that, it cost 10 points and didn't give a bonus to active defenses, though it still had all the other effects.

[pawsplay]

As a meta-trait:
+1 to all defenses, this amounts to +1 Block (ignoring specialzation), +1 Dodge, and +1 Parry (all), for a total of [30]
(and note that the text says any Enhanced Defense is definitely cinematic, so you have three cinematic advantages)

+1 to Fast-Draw skill; the most expensive rank of any of these skills is 4 points, and the cheapest Talent is 5 points, so I feel comfortable saying this is, in principle, worth [5]

+2 to Fright checks, Fearlessness 2, call it -20% for no benefit against Intimidation, for a total of [3]

+6 to recover from surprise or mental "stun", which is essentially Resistant to those effects, with a base cost of 5 for just being one phenomenon, and it's intermediate between +3 and +8, for 1/3 or 1/2 cost respectively, so somewhere between [1] and [2]. I'll call it a Perk, and say it's [1].

As a meta-trait, I clock it at 39 points.

Originally Posted by Anthony

It's debatable how much is combat reflexes being a good deal and how much is the components of combat reflexes being bad deals.

Oddly, combat reflexes only appeared in its current form in 3e. Prior to that, it cost 10 points and didn't give a bonus to active defenses, though it still had all the other effects.

I'm pretty sure I remember if from early editions being pretty much the only way to gain a bonus to a defense.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

I'm pretty sure I remember if from early editions being pretty much the only way to gain a bonus to a defense.

I definitely remember a version with the other, but it might have been earlier than the 2e/3e split.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by pawsplay

It doesn't even have the mild drawback it used to.

Combat reflexes is a good deal because its supposed to be something PC warriors are supposed to have. Not getting it is the way to say "My character is a civilian."

If combat reflexes was more expensive it would be out of reach as a purchase in play. That would preclude the character arc of the boot recruit with no combat reflexes because he has no combat experience and learns to become a seasoned soldier,

[Farmer]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

Combat reflexes is a good deal because its supposed to be something PC warriors are supposed to have. Not getting it is the way to say "My character is a civilian."

If combat reflexes was more expensive it would be out of reach as a purchase in play. That would preclude the character arc of the boot recruit with no combat reflexes because he has no combat experience and learns to become a seasoned soldier,

This is how I see it, too. It's designed and priced as a core component, rather than just a build up of sub components. It's designed to balance overall for game play.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

If combat reflexes was more expensive it would be out of reach as a purchase in play.

Eh, it's easily possible to make it buyable without making it a super deal: just change what it does. I would probably change it to
Combat Reflexes (1/level)
Each level of combat reflexes gives +1 to rolls to recover from surprise or mental stun, and reduces the number of turns spent 'frozen' in a total surprise situation by 1.
Buyable in play, decent value, and isn't a weird composite of multiple traits.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Anthony

Eh, it's easily possible to make it buyable without making it a super deal: just change what it does. I would probably change it to
Combat Reflexes (1/level)
Each level of combat reflexes gives +1 to rolls to recover from surprise or mental stun, and reduces the number of turns spent 'frozen' in a total surprise situation by 1.
Buyable in play, decent value, and isn't a weird composite of multiple traits.

That makes viable swashbucklers harder to field. Combat Reflexes is also not as good a deal as it seems, although it is good deal because people almost never use more than one defense in a turn.