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Old 09-22-2007, 09:56 AM   #1
Exxar
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Default [Spaceships] Particle beams

On p. 65 it is stated that X-ray lasers, grasers, antiparticle beams and particle beams cannot penetrate atmosphere. On the other hand, Ultra-Tech states that particle beams work normally in atmospheres (indeed, they have reduced range in vacuum). Is this an error or is there a reason for this discrepancy?
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

If they particle beams in UT and Spaceships are like the particle beams in 3rd edition, then the two source refer to related, but distinct weapons.

The UT particle beams are charged particle beams (which would have a reduced range in vacuum, as the charged particles would repel each other) while those in Spaceships are most likely neutral particle beams (which would work in vacuum). Someone who knows more than I do will have to explain why neutral particle beams do not function in an atmosphere.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

On p 28 of Spaceships, particle beams are described as "A neutral particle beam." The blasters in Ultra-Tech p. 122 fire charged particles. Neutral particle beams are great in vacuum, but lousy in air. Charged particles are great in air, but lousy in vacuum.
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Old 09-22-2007, 10:30 AM   #4
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

I suppose the idea is that a charged particle beam loses focus quickly enough in a vacuum so that it won't be coherent enough to do (significant?) damage when it enters an atmosphere. Neutral particle beams were discussed last week, in the [UT Reality Check] thread. They will rapidly lose effectiveness in atmosphere.
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Old 09-22-2007, 11:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

Right, I missed that neutral particle part on p 28.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

Note that a dual-mode particle beam, while usable in either atmosphere or space, will have a great deal of difficulty penetrating the boundary.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Note that a dual-mode particle beam, while usable in either atmosphere or space, will have a great deal of difficulty penetrating the boundary.
Dual mode charged and neutral particle beam?
That sounds like combining guns that fire butter and toast respectively. Delicious idea, but two very separate designs.
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Old 09-22-2007, 05:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

Got the mean idea for an atmospheric nuetral particle shotgun...would it work? Probably not! Granted if neutral beams spread out in atmosphere like charged beams do in vacuum.
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Old 09-22-2007, 06:53 PM   #9
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyndaran
Dual mode charged and neutral particle beam?
That sounds like combining guns that fire butter and toast respectively. Delicious idea, but two very separate designs.
Oh, it's not very realistic (seeing as an NPAW is almost certainly an ion accelerator plus a charge neutralizer, while a CPAW is almost certainly an electron accelerator), but it's how earlier versions of the rules claimed an NPAW worked.
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Old 09-23-2007, 07:43 AM   #10
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Default Re: [Spaceships] Particle beams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
Oh, it's not very realistic (seeing as an NPAW is almost certainly an ion accelerator plus a charge neutralizer, while a CPAW is almost certainly an electron accelerator), but it's how earlier versions of the rules claimed an NPAW worked.
I'm pretty dubious of those ion accelerator w/charge neutralizer schemes anyway. I'm not sure how "robust" those ions are with their extra electrons. Maybe the extra electron will drag the whole ion behind it and maybe the atom will just spit those extra electron out.

There should probably also be some concerns about the mechanism for stripping off the extra electron. It'll force potentially significant (and essentially random) changes in the energy levels of each atom after you've released them from your mechanism. You probably need something that gives you more control.

As to how Gurps _used_ to do these things, in the first edition of Vehicles a NPAW was an actual beam of neutrons. No idea how you do that without gravitionbally based mega-accelerators. If you could do it at all, it would probably work in vacuum and atmosphere.

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