[Low-Tech] Which pieces of armor have neck gaps?

Ulzgoroth · 12-10-2010, 03:06 PM

LT101 gives us, among other things, neck armor gaps targeted at -8.

But I'm not sure when and how they work.

Just targeting the neck is at -5, so this has to be working around some sort of armor. But which armor? By a literal reading, any non-flexible neck protection, but that seems hard to believe.

A Turret is a big, bulky, more than neck-covering tube with nothing like articulation. Does it really have gaps?

Does a Bevor have gaps? The pictures I find are of big solid metal plates that don't seem like they'd have any such vulnerability.

Scale Aventail and (segmented plate) Lobsterback?

Probably any Greathelm that isn't fixed to the torso armor has neck gaps?

I assume a Gorget is the perfect example of armor with neck gaps...

Blood Legend · 07-15-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

I assume a Gorget is the perfect example of armor with neck gaps...

This is a problem I'm having.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rget_(PSF).png

How does a gorget have gaps? It's a rigid plate that covers the entire neck: Gaps, there are none. Am I missing something?

Edit: Chinks, obviously, you're impossibly trying to stab between armor folds. Gaps? Not so much.

Aneirin · 07-15-2012, 12:38 PM

From what I read (I am sure that someone more knowledgeable will come along and say differently) is that if armur has gaps you can target them.

However, if the armour has protection, such as sliding rivets for the armpits or backs of the knees, you can't target these gaps. You can go for weaknesses for half HP, but not completely ignore DR.

With neck armour, if you do purchase something that specifically armours the neck, well you have covered up the gap, so it can't be targetted anymore.

It looks like the only gap that can't be covered this way is the palms of the hand, unless someone went for a full gauntlet and gave themselves bad grip.

Polydamas · 07-15-2012, 12:59 PM

If you are using the Armour Gaps optional rule from LT, all rigid armour provides DR 0 to gaps. Wearing a layer of flexible armour underneath (or an arming doublet which includes such armour) will give the gaps DR, and Sliding Rivets make the gaps of Plate harder to hit.

I can't say what gaps in 15th-16th century European neck protection the authors were thinking about, but the gap in a mouth-high Mycenaean turret would probably be a stab from above, and the gap in a jaw-high Egyptian turret would be a stab between the bottom of the jaw and the top of the cuirass. There are always some judgement calls: for example, some Japanese mail leg armour was made in several pieces and might have a Knee Gap even though its flexible!

Aneirin · 07-15-2012, 01:29 PM

Just reading through the low tech rules, and its arming doublets that protect elbows, armpits and backs of knees with plate mail.

And the neck armour I reckon does cover the gaps as low tech on describing the neck as being vulnerable due to difficulty in proteting refers to pages 112 to 113 to armour it. Some only protect the front, others only do the back. A gorget seems to offer good protection

DanHoward · 07-15-2012, 03:36 PM

The Loadouts book introduces a gorget that has no gap at the neck. It is articulated and fits into a turn that allows the head to move. Earlier neck guards either had gaps or they prevented the head from moving. The Loadouts book has these too but adds combat penalties. They were uncomfortable enough that some decided to fight without them.

demonsbane · 07-16-2012, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

The Loadouts book introduces a gorget that has no gap at the neck. It is articulated and fits into a turn that allows the head to move. Earlier neck guards either had gaps or they prevented the head from moving. The Loadouts book has these too but adds combat penalties. They were uncomfortable enough that some decided to fight without them.

Judging by this comment, seemingly this book is going to have, besides loadouts, new optional rules and crunch concerning armor, along the lines of GURPS Low-Tech, Companion 2: Weapons and Warriors and Instant Armor.

(I'll wait to the release of Low-Tech: Loadouts for binding the three LT compendia and the other two books together.)

12-10-2010, 03:06 PM	#1
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	[Low-Tech] Which pieces of armor have neck gaps? LT101 gives us, among other things, neck armor gaps targeted at -8. But I'm not sure when and how they work. Just targeting the neck is at -5, so this has to be working around some sort of armor. But which armor? By a literal reading, any non-flexible neck protection, but that seems hard to believe. A Turret is a big, bulky, more than neck-covering tube with nothing like articulation. Does it really have gaps? Does a Bevor have gaps? The pictures I find are of big solid metal plates that don't seem like they'd have any such vulnerability. Scale Aventail and (segmented plate) Lobsterback? Probably any Greathelm that isn't fixed to the torso armor has neck gaps? I assume a Gorget is the perfect example of armor with neck gaps... __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

07-15-2012, 12:38 PM	#3
Aneirin Join Date: May 2012	Re: [Low-Tech] Which pieces of armor have neck gaps? From what I read (I am sure that someone more knowledgeable will come along and say differently) is that if armur has gaps you can target them. However, if the armour has protection, such as sliding rivets for the armpits or backs of the knees, you can't target these gaps. You can go for weaknesses for half HP, but not completely ignore DR. With neck armour, if you do purchase something that specifically armours the neck, well you have covered up the gap, so it can't be targetted anymore. It looks like the only gap that can't be covered this way is the palms of the hand, unless someone went for a full gauntlet and gave themselves bad grip.

07-15-2012, 12:59 PM	#4
Polydamas Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Central Europe	Re: [Low-Tech] Which pieces of armor have neck gaps? If you are using the Armour Gaps optional rule from LT, all rigid armour provides DR 0 to gaps. Wearing a layer of flexible armour underneath (or an arming doublet which includes such armour) will give the gaps DR, and Sliding Rivets make the gaps of Plate harder to hit. I can't say what gaps in 15th-16th century European neck protection the authors were thinking about, but the gap in a mouth-high Mycenaean turret would probably be a stab from above, and the gap in a jaw-high Egyptian turret would be a stab between the bottom of the jaw and the top of the cuirass. There are always some judgement calls: for example, some Japanese mail leg armour was made in several pieces and might have a Knee Gap even though its flexible! __________________ "It is easier to banish a habit of thought than a piece of knowledge." H. Beam Piper This forum got less aggravating when I started using the ignore feature

07-15-2012, 01:29 PM	#5
Aneirin Join Date: May 2012	Re: [Low-Tech] Which pieces of armor have neck gaps? Just reading through the low tech rules, and its arming doublets that protect elbows, armpits and backs of knees with plate mail. And the neck armour I reckon does cover the gaps as low tech on describing the neck as being vulnerable due to difficulty in proteting refers to pages 112 to 113 to armour it. Some only protect the front, others only do the back. A gorget seems to offer good protection

07-15-2012, 03:36 PM	#6
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: [Low-Tech] Which pieces of armor have neck gaps? The Loadouts book introduces a gorget that has no gap at the neck. It is articulated and fits into a turn that allows the head to move. Earlier neck guards either had gaps or they prevented the head from moving. The Loadouts book has these too but adds combat penalties. They were uncomfortable enough that some decided to fight without them. Last edited by DanHoward; 07-15-2012 at 03:49 PM.