Swing vs Thrust?

TechOgre · 11-03-2020, 05:51 AM

I was wondering if there are any rules that dictate when you can use a thrust versus a swing in melee combat. This assumes a weapon has both swing and thrust modes.

My gut feeling is it depends on the situation. For example, if the character is in a tight tunnel, they can thrust their sword but not swing.

Gigermann · 11-03-2020, 07:38 AM

GURPS Underground Adventures (p. 12), "Fighting in Confined Spaces" discusses this very topic.

Rolando · 11-03-2020, 12:34 PM

but without having to buy a pdf (not that it is a bad buy, it is great, but you don't need to for this alone)...

The GM is the one that must decide if the character can or can not swing a weapon.

Otherwise it is the player choice, as long as there is space you can.

Some weapons may need more space (two haded sword, halberds, etc) others may swing even in tight spaces (large knifes). So it is a GM call if there is enough space.

As long as you are consistent everything will be great, so if the player can't swing in a corridor but the enemies can't ether you are doing it right.

Dalin · 11-03-2020, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigermann

GURPS Underground Adventures (p. 12), "Fighting in Confined Spaces" discusses this very topic.

That was a gem of a book! So many useful tidbits.

Plane · 11-03-2020, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gigermann

Underground Adventures

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalin

a gemof a book!

and a tasty read

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rolando

The GM is the one that must decide if the character can or can not swing a weapon.

Otherwise it is the player choice, as long as there is space you can.

Some weapons may need more space (two haded sword, halberds, etc) others may swing even in tight spaces (large knifes). So it is a GM call if there is enough space.

I think the most sensible thing is we try to remember that weapons with reaches beyond C actually occupy hexes beyond their wielders. Even though that's "facing" by default, it could be reasonable to make actual attacks/parries briefly change which hexes your weapons occupy (rather than just grip changes)

If we don't work that into existing attack rules (for example: assume for simplicity that all thrusts involve less than 2 feet of forward/back movement, assume all swings involve less than 2 feet of left/right or up/down movement) then maybe we could give some kind of bonus to damage for weapon attacks that do give more exaggerated movement, as that's a greater distance to build up momentum.

Rolando · 11-03-2020, 01:35 PM

I think, if more detailed rules are needed maybe looking at GURPS Underground Adventures is the way to go.

Otherwise using the Bad Footing (-2) and Wild Swing (-4) as guidelines of bad strikes is one way you can do it.

you can swing with no trouble, you have some restricted space (-2), you are in a cramped space (-4) or you can't strike a swing here.You may even give some modifiers to defenses for the same reasons, less space for footwork (so -1 or -2 to parry and dodge).

It varies from weapon to weapon too. A halberd may need height but not side space (at least for the 3 hex reach swing, I can see a 1 hex reach side swing while holding the halberd at about the middle). But a sword may swing if you have a low ceiling but enough space to the sides or high ceiling and no side space.

You should also limit swings (or have some penalties) if you are in a cramped formation with fellow characters. Or simply play it simple for the sake of the game.

Kale · 11-03-2020, 05:01 PM

A few thoughts on situations:

Heavy brush like dense jungle growth can make a swing impossible.
Classic forests of poles like bamboo can cause problems.
Dangling chains or vines could prevent a swing.
Dangling live electrical wires.
Closely packed people, like a surprise attack while jammed in a crowd at an event.
Caught up in a herd of animals much like the crowd of people.
Interior of a vehicle like a bus, plane, or train.
Some interior areas in a ship, especially the tight quarters of most military vessels (both space and ocean-going ships).
Inside the guts of an immense steampunk factory or machine with whirling gears and pistons everywhere.
Laser beam traps around the characters where they have to not break any of the beams.
Wire traps, like laser beam trap but with tripwires everywhere. Extra nasty if the wires are ultra-tech monowire that does cutting damage if merely touched.

11-03-2020, 05:51 AM	#1
TechOgre MIB Join Date: Aug 2004	Swing vs Thrust? I was wondering if there are any rules that dictate when you can use a thrust versus a swing in melee combat. This assumes a weapon has both swing and thrust modes. My gut feeling is it depends on the situation. For example, if the character is in a tight tunnel, they can thrust their sword but not swing. __________________ We may, indeed, share 98% of our genes with chimpanzees, but then, we share 47% with cabbages.

11-03-2020, 07:38 AM	#2
Gigermann Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Oklahoma City	Re: Swing vs Thrust? GURPS Underground Adventures (p. 12), "Fighting in Confined Spaces" discusses this very topic. __________________ The Art of D. Raymond Lunceford, The Daniverse: Core Group Annex The Daniverse Game Blog

11-03-2020, 12:34 PM	#3
Rolando MIB Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Panama	Re: Swing vs Thrust? but without having to buy a pdf (not that it is a bad buy, it is great, but you don't need to for this alone)... The GM is the one that must decide if the character can or can not swing a weapon. Otherwise it is the player choice, as long as there is space you can. Some weapons may need more space (two haded sword, halberds, etc) others may swing even in tight spaces (large knifes). So it is a GM call if there is enough space. As long as you are consistent everything will be great, so if the player can't swing in a corridor but the enemies can't ether you are doing it right.

11-03-2020, 01:35 PM	#6
Rolando MIB Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Panama	Re: Swing vs Thrust? I think, if more detailed rules are needed maybe looking at GURPS Underground Adventures is the way to go. Otherwise using the Bad Footing (-2) and Wild Swing (-4) as guidelines of bad strikes is one way you can do it. you can swing with no trouble, you have some restricted space (-2), you are in a cramped space (-4) or you can't strike a swing here.You may even give some modifiers to defenses for the same reasons, less space for footwork (so -1 or -2 to parry and dodge). It varies from weapon to weapon too. A halberd may need height but not side space (at least for the 3 hex reach swing, I can see a 1 hex reach side swing while holding the halberd at about the middle). But a sword may swing if you have a low ceiling but enough space to the sides or high ceiling and no side space. You should also limit swings (or have some penalties) if you are in a cramped formation with fellow characters. Or simply play it simple for the sake of the game.

11-03-2020, 05:01 PM	#7
Kale Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Cowtown, Canada	Re: Swing vs Thrust? A few thoughts on situations: Heavy brush like dense jungle growth can make a swing impossible. Classic forests of poles like bamboo can cause problems. Dangling chains or vines could prevent a swing. Dangling live electrical wires. Closely packed people, like a surprise attack while jammed in a crowd at an event. Caught up in a herd of animals much like the crowd of people. Interior of a vehicle like a bus, plane, or train. Some interior areas in a ship, especially the tight quarters of most military vessels (both space and ocean-going ships). Inside the guts of an immense steampunk factory or machine with whirling gears and pistons everywhere. Laser beam traps around the characters where they have to not break any of the beams. Wire traps, like laser beam trap but with tripwires everywhere. Extra nasty if the wires are ultra-tech monowire that does cutting damage if merely touched. __________________ FYI: Laser burns HURT!