Problem with Stealth?

[Icelander]

I like to modify the Per roll, even if the character is ostensibly alert, as there are different degrees of alertness.

I apply a generic -2 whenever a character is dividing his attention between two activities, i.e. keeping watch while writing his journal, playing go against a fellow sentry or just chatting with him, checking for traps somewhere while a goblin scout is sneaking up on him, etc.

I apply a -4 for characters performing an action demanding total concentration while also trying to maintain situational awareness. The stereotypical example for this is combat, in that characters who are attacking receive a -4 to their situational awareness checks relative to characters who take a second to focus on their environment and any potential threats.

I strongly suspect that I'd never declare that a PC with Combat Reflexes, high Perception, and training in Observation, Soldier, Stealth and Tactics, was completely unaware and did not get any kind of roll to notice a sneaking enemy.

However, I'd happily apply a negative TDM of up to -10 (which I'd rate as asleep in a supposedly safe location, entwined with a loved one, drunk and exhausted after a night of enjoyable debauchery) to the Per or Per-based Observation of the PC, which would make it very likely that any success at Stealth by the opponent would win the QC.

[Brandy]

Originally Posted by Icelander

I strongly suspect that I'd never declare that a PC with Combat Reflexes, high Perception, and training in Observation, Soldier, Stealth and Tactics, was completely unaware and did not get any kind of roll to notice a sneaking enemy.

I think this would make a good perk for characters like you describe or for animals. Hypervigilant, perhaps?

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by Gumby Bush

One could modify the guard's Per/Observation roll depending on alertness levels. If he isn't really watching, just happens to be awake and alert, subtract some number that seems fitting.

I like to make the roll the lesser of Per or Will. This means a low Will Guard might have stopped paying attention to his tasks and instead started daydreaming or doodling or carving his initials into the wall in the corner...

[AlexanderHowl]

The rules for missing sleep also apply, as well as penalties for visibility. Stealth characters should probably invest in Night Vision 5, as they will want to have a significant advantage over their opponents, especially for ambushes and espionage. In addition, Craftiness and Stalker are good Talents for Stealth characters, and I have seen characters with DX 12, Craftiness 4, and Stalker 4 take Stealth-20 for 2 CP (the other skills covered by the two Talents are also useful for Stealth characters).

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by Brandy

I think this would make a good perk for characters like you describe or for animals. Hypervigilant, perhaps?

Well, never being in Condition White (Tactical Shooting p. 34) is defined as one of the many benefits of having Combat Reflexes.

Beyond that, Standard Operating Procedure (Check the Crowd) already exist as a Perk and would mean that TDM penalties for lack of alertness would not apply, as the character is always checking whether anyone near him is a threat, using Body Language and Observation. That's obviously a very good Perk for campaigns where a GM is apt to enforce such penalties or disallow Per rolls entirely unless the player specifies that his character is on the alert.

In one campaign (Jade Serenity), I'm playing a former Special Forces Weapons Sergeant (18B) with hyper-enhanced senses from a mysterious Supersoldier program, resulting in Per 20 and Observation-25 + any applicable bonus for Discriminatory Senses, Danger Sense (Hypersensory) and other special sensory abilities.

I'm also the technical adviser to the GM on GURPS rules in that campaign, so I've thought about this issue. Chase Taylor, my character, doesn't have the SOP (Check the Crowd) Perk, largely to prevent him from having a perfect mental image of everything around him at all times, but with Danger Sense (Hypersensory), he's still pretty impossible to surprise by any real foe.

In play, he's suffered penalties of up to -15 or so to notice stuff while he was, eh, occupied*, due to the result of a Sex Appeal vs. Will Quick Contest between the McGuffin / budding supervillainess / love interest and him. That was about a -8 TDM for heavy petting while being drenched by a sprinkler system and another -7 for the margin of failure he lost by in the QC. Which caused him to miss another PC hiding nearby, but probably wouldn't have caused him to miss a true threat, because of Danger Sense (the -7 for the QC would still apply, but the -8 TDM wouldn't).

I figure that a successful Soldier roll, for longer periods, a Will-based Soldier roll, will mean that a character maintains an acceptable level of awareness for a sentry or during a scene where a character is clearing a building room by room, looking for threats, even if the player doesn't specifically mention that he'll be on the alert. Basically, unless otherwise specified, assume that when a trained operator does the stuff he's trained at, he'll be on the alert.

*PG to PG-13 making out, though, not HBO levels of occupied. Taylor doesn't even use foul language, unless you count my poor imitation of an extremely rural Alabama drawl.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by AlexanderHowl

Stealth characters should probably invest in Night Vision 5, as they will want to have a significant advantage over their opponents, especially for ambushes and espionage.

If the PCs have access to superpowers, absolutely. Note, however, that Night Vision higher than 2 is not possible for a normal human.

[cupbearer]

Originally Posted by Erling

Perhaps my interpretation of "attacking ability" and "resistance" is broader than most people read that. I would easily classify Stealth attempt as an "ability" and thus apply the rule concerning necessity of success. I would also apply the same to Judo and Wrestling contests, such as Takedown.

Now I'm not sure whether it's RAW, but I build my inerpretation on the rulebook.

Hi
In the skill description it says quick contest for stealth, not resistance roll. You don't resist stealth, therefore don't need to win the roll. Having said that obviously you can play how you like and i think your solution seems practical to me, so why not?

[Erling]

Originally Posted by cupbearer

Hi
In the skill description it says quick contest for stealth, not resistance roll. You don't resist stealth, therefore don't need to win the roll. Having said that obviously you can play how you like and i think your solution seems practical to me, so why not?

Resistance roll is a subtype of Quick Contests, as far as I get it.

[cupbearer]

Originally Posted by Erling

Resistance roll is a subtype of Quick Contests, as far as I get it.

it is, but its used when the rules say roll to resist, in the case of stealth it does not say this.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Erling

Perhaps my interpretation of "attacking ability" and "resistance" is broader than most people read that. I would easily classify Stealth attempt as an "ability" and thus apply the rule concerning necessity of success. I would also apply the same to Judo and Wrestling contests, such as Takedown.

Now I'm not sure whether it's RAW, but I build my inerpretation on the rulebook.

The attacking ability is not Stealth. It's Perception. By default Stealth just works if you make your suitably modified Stealth roll. But if someone is looking for Sneaky McSneakersons their Perception "attacks" the Stealth.