The morality of Orcs

[combatmedic]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Certainly it's the primary source, but Orcs in most games aren't elves corrupted by Morgoth. Their "morality" can't really be generalized except to say that they are typically (but not always) "evil". You certainly can't say that all orcs in all RPGs are like the Urik of Mordor in any specific way.

That I think is huge stretch. The original Blackmoor game grew out of their Napoleonic wargames, and didn't initially have any fantasy influence at all.

It seems possible to me that D&D could still have come about, but without Tolkien it would being even closer to 'pulp fantasy' and swords& sorcery than it already is/was. Conan, Cthulhu, Grey Mouser, Tarzan, Kugel the Clever etc all had a big impact on the game from the formative days.

Or maybe the first RPGs would be more historical in nature? Something like Boot Hill?

[RyanW]

I personally like to add the idea that the Orcs themselves don't see "Orc" as a biological classification. One can become an Orc by earning the respect of an Orc, much like one can become a Frenchman through service in the Foreign Legion.

Orcs that are not at least part-time warriors hold a status like that of helots. The immediate families (especially mothers) of proven soldiers are entitled to a small portion of their relative's esteem. Likewise those that soldiers choose to "sponsor" (mostly craftsmen who make weapons).

[ajardoor]

I always liked the idea of Orcs having a tribal wanderer and druidic tradition because of maltheistic beliefs of varying strengths (from "the gods are evil and must be destroyed" to "the gods are petty jerks, avoid them").

Hence why they don't get along with the other races; they worship the gods too much.

As for wizardly magic, well, Orcish traditions says Druidic magic is better and that wizards are tainted somehow and to some extent (regional dogmas vary on just why and how much). But some tribes disagree, saying wizards give the middle finger to the gods, so they must be alright.

[David Johansen]

A few I've used.

Orcs are the children of night and darkness even as the elves are the children of light. In this case the orcs are very much the id made manifest. The Jungen shadow. The notion here was orcs as actual avatars of evil. Ancient orcs are essentially darkness elementals. These orcs were decidedly antitheists. Not in the sense that they don't believe in gods because in a fantasy world that would be dumb but in the sense that they will not worship the gods and would kill them if they could.


Orcs are the children of the earth. This world requires a little explaining. The earth is a heap of corpses of the titans, planetary scale elementals who are at war with the gods. Humanity, elves, dwarves and the like are essentially the decay bacteria and fungi while the orcs are the last antibodies fighting to preserve their dying host. These orcs were pretty sympathetic. They were militant and organized but as a society had a genocidal objective, the utter destruction of the other races. These orcs had fairly normal societies within their own lands and were really being set up as the last heroic stand against the growing threat of the blight of the parasite continent.


Orcs are just a marginalized paolithic human culture that has been driven out of their native lands by the vicious and exploitive humans and elves. This one is nasty and very GURPS. The slow realization that you're the monsters and the monsters are more human and decent than you is a particularly horrific thing to pull on your players.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by Dangerious P. Cats

I've always liked the idea of giving characters in stories, including those told through roleplay, realistic characteristics and motives, though this becomes a rather interesting proportion when it comes to Orcs. Orcs are brutal and ruthless, they just wouldn't be Orcs if they weren't, but how do you explain their brutality in a realistic fantasy (I'm well aware of the paradox) setting?

In a "realistic" fantasy (or historical) setting, human nations will be so brutal and aggressive, that it will be hard to make Orcs even MORE brutal...

Usually Orcs are depicted as "brutal" because humans in fantasy are unrealistically good (especially feudal noblemen).

Generally in my realistic fantasy campaigns, Orcs/Half-orcs are just an "exotic foreign invader", no worse and no better than other ethnic foes.

Or possibly, Half-orcs are like that, and then there are "true" Orcs which are callous, unorganized, beast-like savages which roam the land... in that case, Half-orcs are playable but Orcs aren't.

[Dangerious P. Cats]

It's probably a good idea to take the Occam's Razor approach and keep exotic/fantastic ideas to a minimum. For a campaign I'm working on the Orc's are slave soldiers of a Romanish Empire the players are trying to resist. The Orcs are particually brutal in their dealings with human enemies because it means they can symbolically lash out at their Human masters for all the pain and grief inflicted. The Orc soliders are kept under the thumb of the Impire through the Orc Wives being kept hostage, as Orcs get horrible anxiety when kep away from their wives/families for too long, much worse than Humans do (an Orc warrior couldn't live away from his wife months at a time like humans can). The Orcs are so brutal because they want to lash out at their human masters, but the only humans on hand are their enemies, and brutality is the only catharsis they get. Likewise Orcs tend to prefer fight over flight when confronted with threat, and male Orcs tend to be prone to putting themselves in danger for the good of the group. They are not outright suicidal, but rather will risk their lives more readily. Basically to highlight the difference if a colony of primative humans were appraoched by a large predator, the humans would move to saftey as a priority, while if the colony were Orks of the same TL some of the males would attack while the rest of the colony fled as even if the males died the predator would likely die from it's wounds meaning it couldn't threaten the Orcs anymore (also in the Orc's native lands predators will only attack isolated humanoids, they stear well clear of large groups or settlements). Though presents issues with how to stat these behaviours.

[Apache]

I once ran a fantasy GURPS game set in Ancient Greece where the different city-states were different species as well.

Athens, of course, was Elvish. Thebes (and many other cities) were Human, I think the Persians were Dwarves, there was at least one Centaur city, and several Gnome and Goblin cities (no hobbits....bleh).

And Sparta.....Sparta was the Orcs.

:)

[jason taylor]

Originally Posted by Apache

I once ran a fantasy GURPS game set in Ancient Greece where the different city-states were different species as well.

Athens, of course, was Elvish. Thebes (and many other cities) were Human, I think the Persians were Dwarves, there was at least one Centaur city, and several Gnome and Goblin cities (no hobbits....bleh).

And Sparta.....Sparta was the Orcs.

:)

Sparta is Uruk-hai. Persians are orcs.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Sparta is Uruk-hai. Persians are orcs.

Only Uruk-Hai are Orcs, all others are snaga!

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by jason taylor

Sparta is Uruk-hai. Persians are orcs.

If Persians are 10 feet tall monsters without faces or individuality, while Spartans are scantily clad gay-porn models... then you just wasted your money to watch a horrible and overtly racist piece of propaganda called "300" :P