06-20-2014, 11:42 AM | #11 |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
If you look at my progressions, you'll note I drop damage by 2 if the character has the skill at DX-1 or less (including working off defaults), and by 1 at DX. When using this, however, I'd actually suggest changing punching damage to thr, kicking to thr+1 so that the untrained (working at DX) are still at the level they would be under GURPS RAW.
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06-21-2014, 02:07 AM | #12 | |
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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a). bypassing armour (hitting where it's not) b). target areas where damage is multiplied (hitting where it hurts) Adding to raw damage would seem to be double dipping both and to an extent removing (a) as advantage. This last will have a knock on effect on higher skill in combination with set ups etc where your leverage your higher skill but at the cost of being able to target higher value locations. Put it this way set ups and deceptive attacks etc just got even better for higher skilled users because they can get the bonuses and not worry about where they are hitting so much. Similarly armour is going to be an issue (without rehashing that debate) this will certainly mean more armour will be blown through more quickly. If nothing else the damage from unarmed skills is at least restricted to cr damage (apart from those specific weapons that use karate or esoteric perks/techniques). But damage multipliers will multiplier those bonuses as well. It going to come down to what weapons are in what progression of course, and I certainly use convert d+X to dice because you'll get quite a lot of fixed damage. That said I can't help but think everyone will chose a weapon that have the higher progression rate as a matter of course. Simply because the advantage of doing so will be too great to ignore. Still for cinematic games I think it's a great fit, it will if nothing else explain cinematic amour. Last edited by Tomsdad; 06-21-2014 at 02:20 AM. |
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06-21-2014, 08:47 AM | #13 | |
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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Essentially, skilled practitioners hit harder and more accurately. There is indeed synergy between these two, which makes highly-skilled warriors dangerous, but I'm perfectly fine with that. *Limitation value taken from Extra Attack. A higher value may be appropriate here - Unarmed Only applies to more than one skill (although many of those skills allow weapons, which this wouldn't) and is -40%, which may be more appropriate and would reduce cost to [3]. The progressions are for skills, not weapons, and a higher progression almost invariably means a more difficult skill. A character with Brawling (Easy skill, Average progression) at DX+7 has paid [24] for his skill and +3 to his Striking ST. A character with Karate (Hard skill, Fast progression) at DX+7 has instead paid [32] for his skill and +4 to his Striking ST - if his GM allows it, he would have been better off (from a damage standpoint) investing those extra [8] into Striking ST 2 (Single Skill -20%) and had a +5 to Striking ST. Heck, this makes me think my current (unposted-as-yet) draft of my Combat Skills Overhaul is wrong in making Fast progression a +2 to skill difficulty, but I think I'm going to stick with that anyway and probably disallow Striking ST (Single Skill), which honestly doesn't make sense as its own Advantage if you're giving it away as a high skill bonus. |
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06-21-2014, 09:13 AM | #14 | |
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lynn, MA
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
Just to note Striking ST Limitations for the discussion:
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06-21-2014, 09:53 AM | #15 | ||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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I.e the issue of hand held damage vis a vis armour penetration is its variability, this just seems to add to it. At least with increasing ST's you can say High ST's wear thicker armour, you have no similar counter balance for higher skill penetrating more armour. However this is an issue of the sweet spot between Current DR and hand held weapon penetration being so narrow at the moment. I get the point about skilled users being able to hit harder and better, and I agree. It's just that instead of making it easier for them to do both I would just cost the different benefits as per normal rather than giving a synergistic discount. Basically as you point out the per skill level cost reduced at higher levels, for me that it too powerful especially as at those higher levels you are already able to leverage that higher skill in different ways. To be honest I've had high skill act as an unusual background buy in threshold for limited increased striking ST. Quote:
Last edited by Tomsdad; 06-22-2014 at 01:43 AM. |
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06-21-2014, 12:23 PM | #16 |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
Well, I'm not planning on changing the cost of skills. But I think it's appropriate to reduce damage across the board before applying trained strength bonuses, and I think it would be fair to cap the bonuses at some level. IDHMBWM, and I don't remember if TG already includes a cap on Trained ST bonuses, but if it doesn't DX +10 seems like a good upper limit.
I really don't think it's going to break anything. If you're worried about skilled fighters suddenly blasting through armor, you should be enforcing Edge Protection and other optional rules from Low Tech.
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My ongoing thread of GURPS versions of DC Comics characters. |
06-21-2014, 12:34 PM | #17 | |
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vermont
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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1: It's realistic. When you increase skill, you build muscles and Neuro-pathways that allow you to generate more power with certain specific movements. Additionally (and IMHO more importantly) you learn to use your whole body in coordination, bringing more muscle groups and more of your mass to bear on the problem. 2: It makes skills a better deal. You seem to think it makes them too good a deal, but I disagree. Skills are a pretty bad deal compared to Dex, leading to a lot of optimization away from buying skills. This little incentive helps. I suggest combining it with more generous defaults to help even more.
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06-22-2014, 01:25 AM | #18 | ||||
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Brighton
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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My issue with this idea is that a high skill can now at the same time, increase damage, increase chances to hit, and with combat options reduce chances to defend against. Basically an advantage in skill can be leveraged in a few ways already in combat. Adding this way would seem to make it the factor without flows in combat. However as above a lot of this is going to depend on individual game experience and on what combinations of skill you have in play. This idea will play out different if you have high skill going up against low skill a lot or high skill vs. high skill most of the time etc. Last edited by Tomsdad; 06-23-2014 at 01:52 AM. |
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06-22-2014, 11:49 PM | #19 | ||
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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This seems like a hidden nerf to generalists, untrained people that invested in raw ST, and people that didn't focus in training rather than a way for combat characters to shine their skills. After all, a high skill allows you to target hit locations or chinks in armor already. |
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06-23-2014, 07:18 AM | #20 | |
Doctor of GURPS Ballistics
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Lakeville, MN
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Re: Trained Strength for Striking [TG]
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I do agree - as pointed out in my blog post and comments - that it's likely that for most weapon skills the cross-over point (zero bonus or penalty to ST) should probably be DX rather than something higher, for that reason, though DX+1 for an average skill isn't a bad spot either. I'd save stuff where you have to be awesome with it to get your full ST for really awkward or badly designed (or improvised) weapons, myself.
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Tags |
martial arts, technical grappling, trained st, trained strength |
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