Damage Reduction question

[johniemi]

We're having a hard time understanding armor DR and how damage is calculated thru the DR.
Well not hard as we only have one thing to clear up:

Shooting (with a laser if that matters) autofire, let's say 5 rounds of ammo/laser.

These 5 shots hit the target and do 2d damage each.

Now I roll 5 times 2d and get the below damage numbers:

5
7
8
9
10
10

(for a total of 49 damage, if that matters)

Let's say the enemy has DR 8. So does he take:

A) total damage; 49-8= 41 points of damage?
or
B) every bullet/laser counted separately;
5-8= 0,
7-8= 0,
8-8= 0,
9-8= 1,
10-8= 2,
10-8= 2, for a total of 1+2+2 = 5 points of damage?

So maybe the question in short would be, is: does DR reduce the total damage done in a
single attack action (including autofire as "single attack"), or is DR reduced from each
separate particle that hits the enemy (in this case multiple laser beams, which in my
understanding is a single continuous beam and not several short beams).

Thanks!

[Ragitsu]

Damage Resistance is factored in per shot.

So, if you have DR 10 armor and are hit by three shots (5, 5, 9), you apply each against the DR, meaning it stops each attack completely. You do not add the damage up to 19 and apply it against DR 10.

Armor Divisors and Ablative/Semi-Ablative DR changes things up a bit, but the above rules stand in general.

[Gudiomen]

B.

DR subtracts from each attack (each separate damage roll), if damage were to be added up, there'd be no point rolling separately, it'd be easier to just roll 2d and multiply by 5.

That said, there are a few exceptions to this rule, beam weapons being one of them, in certain circumstances (I don't have my books with me and hardly GM sci-fi, but I know the rule's there).

If a target is sufficiently still and the shot is precise and continuous, you're hitting a single point in the armor, so the initial attack perfurates, leaving an opening for the rest of the attacks (the rest of the beam, in this case).

I'd rather not guess the exact rule, or make a mess. Others will post the correct rule, or a page ref.

In the massive majority of cases though, DR subtracts from each attack/individual damage value.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by johniemi

Shooting (with a laser if that matters) autofire, let's say 5 rounds of ammo/laser.

It would matter in 3rd edition, which had special rules for lasers against DR.

In 4th, lasers use the same rule as everything else. Each damage roll is applied to DR separately.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by Gudiomen

If a target is sufficiently still and the shot is precise and continuous, you're hitting a single point in the armor, so the initial attack perfurates, leaving an opening for the rest of the attacks (the rest of the beam, in this case).

I'd rather not guess the exact rule, or make a mess. Others will post the correct rule, or a page ref.

I believe you're talking about Rapid Fire vs. Close Stationary Targets on B408. That doesn't change how damage and DR are handled, though, only the number of hits.

[SuedodeuS]

As others have noted, DR is assessed per shot. That DR 8 armor may have just saved the character's life.

If you want to have lasers able to bore through something, there are a few things to keep in mind. First, and most important, is mobility. In any combat situation, targets are going to be moving - and you aren't going to be keeping your weapon perfectly stable, either. So, for most situations, the laser wouldn't be able to bore through the DR (as it would be impossible to keep it trained on one location). In the case of a stationary target with a steady weapon, there are going to be a few effects. The first is that every shot is going to hit. If your laser weapon is RoF 10, you hit 10 times. B408, as referenced by RyanW, essentially has this effect. Next is the boring effect. B559 has information on materials that are naturally somewhat ablative. These include brick, concrete, stone, and wood. Against these materials, treat the armor as fully ablative - in your example, this would be 49-8=41 damage that gets through. Of course, most armor isn't composed of these materials. Personally, in this situation, I'd count more robust materials as semi-ablative (drop DR by 1 for every 10 points of damage). This is because, while the laser may initially bore through just as easily as with the lesser materials, vaporizing armor actually leads to, well, vapor - that is, localized particles consisting of the vaporized material. This vapor can (and does; it's the mechanism used by ablative armor to protect the wearer) absorb, deflect, and even reflect some of the laser's light, resulting in a bit of blooming. This decreases the effectiveness of the laser. Semi-ablative may give the blooming effect too much credit, but at the very least it's a good place to start. If you think the armor isn't being damaged enough, consider changing the rate of decline - say, drop DR by 1 for every 5 points of damage.

[johniemi]

Ok, got it. Now for a second question relating to this. We're playing at TL9 and one of the players spent 40 character points in character creation to get a hot (as "stolen from the military") Battlesuit for his PC. Now he basically has DR 70/50 all the time.

Now both me (as a player) and my paranoid russian ex-Spetsnaz character are worried: how do I eliminate this guy if he decides to flip out at some point? My character wields two heavy laser pistols and there is no way they can ever penetrate his armor.

[Ragitsu]

Does he have the helmet for it? If not, there are plenty of ways to incapacitate him.

[Diomedes]

Originally Posted by johniemi

Ok, got it. Now for a second question relating to this. We're playing at TL9 and one of the players spent 40 character points in character creation to get a hot (as "stolen from the military") Battlesuit for his PC. Now he basically has DR 70/50 all the time.

Now both me (as a player) and my paranoid russian ex-Spetsnaz character are worried: how do I eliminate this guy if he decides to flip out at some point? My character wields two heavy laser pistols and there is no way they can ever penetrate his armor.

For armor, your best bet is anti-armor weapons. The RPG in the Basic Set would have no problem with his armor, and would probably one-shot him.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by johniemi

Ok, got it. Now for a second question relating to this. We're playing at TL9 and one of the players spent 40 character points in character creation to get a hot (as "stolen from the military") Battlesuit for his PC. Now he basically has DR 70/50 all the time.

Now both me (as a player) and my paranoid russian ex-Spetsnaz character are worried: how do I eliminate this guy if he decides to flip out at some point? My character wields two heavy laser pistols and there is no way they can ever penetrate his armor.

Get a bigger gun? Alternatively, wait until he's out of his armor (he has to take it off at some point, yeah?) and sneak some explosives into the joints. If he goes loco, blow his armor apart with the detonator. Failing that, a limpet mine armed with HEAT (HEMP in Ultratech; although it's listed as TL 10, it's available for large calibers as early as TL 7) is a surefire way to bring him down... provided you can get close enough! If you can't get close enough, you can either root him in place with a Tangler grenade (a typical 64mm grenade has ST 36) or give him a nasty wakeup call with a Thermobaric grenade (64mm grenade does 6dx5 cr ex inc). There's all kinds of nasty stuff you can do to someone in power armor.