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Old 06-08-2014, 07:43 AM   #1
Cyrilin
 
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Default Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

An idea I was toying with was an affliction that basically lets me turn off disadvantages at will. What I had in mind for that was:

Affliction (Malediction 3, +150%; Stunning, +10%, Variable Enhancement 50%, +500%; Area Effect 4 yards, +100%, Selective Area, +20%) for 88 points.

Would this really let me turn off just about any advantage worth 50 points or less if I win the Malediction contest? What about abilities like Regeneration? Say if a troll came by with his Regeneration (Extreme) for 150 points, would I knock that down to 100 or wouldn't I be able to affect it at all?
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Old 06-08-2014, 11:54 AM   #2
Christopher R. Rice
 
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Cyrilin View Post
An idea I was toying with was an affliction that basically lets me turn off disadvantages at will. What I had in mind for that was:

Affliction (Malediction 3, +150%; Stunning, +10%, Variable Enhancement 50%, +500%; Area Effect 4 yards, +100%, Selective Area, +20%) for 88 points.

Would this really let me turn off just about any advantage worth 50 points or less if I win the Malediction contest? What about abilities like Regeneration? Say if a troll came by with his Regeneration (Extreme) for 150 points, would I knock that down to 100 or wouldn't I be able to affect it at all?
Yes. And you could limit the enhancement itself with "Accessibility, Only Negated Advantages, -40%" to reduce the cost even more. I recently created a ability to permanently give advantages that used this because it's way cheaper than Cosmic Modular Abilities. As for the Troll, yes, you could knock him down to Regeneration (Fast).
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Old 06-08-2014, 12:53 PM   #3
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
Yes. And you could limit the enhancement itself with "Accessibility, Only Negated Advantages, -40%" to reduce the cost even more. I recently created a ability to permanently give advantages that used this because it's way cheaper than Cosmic Modular Abilities. As for the Troll, yes, you could knock him down to Regeneration (Fast).
That looks suspicious enough that I wouldn't touch it. Maybe you could talk me into allowing the build as the OP posted it, but probably not even that. Negated Advantage is a poor bargain by the RAW, but this build swings too far the other way to suit me. Has it been officially stated that leveled traits can be partially negated?
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:10 PM   #4
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
That looks suspicious enough that I wouldn't touch it. Maybe you could talk me into allowing the build as the OP posted it, but probably not even that. Negated Advantage is a poor bargain by the RAW, but this build swings too far the other way to suit me.
It's straight up Accessibility percentages. With a Affliction that has Variable Enchancement you could add just about anything. But assuming you're using the Special Enhancement List only, that's Advantage, Attribute Penalty, Coma, Disadvantage, Heart Attack/Instant Death/Banishment, Incapacitation, Irritant, Negated Advantage, Negated Disadvantage, and Stunning. That's ten options being reduced to one, which is 10% which gives us -35%...but I rounded it to -40% because you also can't add things like Malediction, enhanced accuracy, and so on to Affliction. -40% is about right me thinks. YMMV of course.


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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Has it been officially stated that leveled traits can be partially negated?
I could have sworn I saw a post on this for Regeneration, but I couldn't find it. That said, Regeneration is kind of a "hidden level" advantage. That's how I treat it personally because it doesn't make sense otherwise. "Oh, I'm sorry, the 50 point Affliction you paid for, Troll Killer, only works on lesser trolls, not greater trolls because their regeneration is Extreme, not Fast."
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
It's straight up Accessibility percentages. With a Affliction that has Variable Enchancement you could add just about anything. But assuming you're using the Special Enhancement List only, that's Advantage, Attribute Penalty, Coma, Disadvantage, Heart Attack/Instant Death/Banishment, Incapacitation, Irritant, Negated Advantage, Negated Disadvantage, and Stunning. That's ten options being reduced to one, which is 10% which gives us -35%...but I rounded it to -40% because you also can't add things like Malediction, enhanced accuracy, and so on to Affliction. -40% is about right me thinks. YMMV of course.
I actually used -50% myself, based on the limitations in Powers. I've used -20% to limit it to 'Only Affliction specific enhancements' for a Curse-type ability, since you can't change what the attack does, only what the result will be.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
I could have sworn I saw a post on this for Regeneration, but I couldn't find it. That said, Regeneration is kind of a "hidden level" advantage. That's how I treat it personally because it doesn't make sense otherwise. "Oh, I'm sorry, the 50 point Affliction you paid for, Troll Killer, only works on lesser trolls, not greater trolls because their regeneration is Extreme, not Fast."
Same as Appearance. I added 'Very Attractive [8]' so it would act as an actual leveled trait. The only sad part about using 'Negated Advantages Only' is you can't decrease an attribute below 10/whatever the racial average is if lower.

As for your initial build, Cyrilin, with that you can get any combination of traits and mess with anyone you can see (since you don't accrue penalties until 200yds). You can give any disad up to -50, irritants, Daze, advantages up to 5pts (or 25, if the target has something that could be alternated off, or 125 if both and they have a point sitting around to use it), HT-10, etc. In case you don't want to only take 'Negate Advantages Only' ;).
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Old 06-08-2014, 01:50 PM   #6
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
It's straight up Accessibility percentages. With a Affliction that has Variable Enchancement you could add just about anything. But assuming you're using the Special Enhancement List only, that's Advantage, Attribute Penalty, Coma, Disadvantage, Heart Attack/Instant Death/Banishment, Incapacitation, Irritant, Negated Advantage, Negated Disadvantage, and Stunning. That's ten options being reduced to one, which is 10% which gives us -35%...but I rounded it to -40% because you also can't add things like Malediction, enhanced accuracy, and so on to Affliction. -40% is about right me thinks. YMMV of course.

I could have sworn I saw a post on this for Regeneration, but I couldn't find it. That said, Regeneration is kind of a "hidden level" advantage. That's how I treat it personally because it doesn't make sense otherwise. "Oh, I'm sorry, the 50 point Affliction you paid for, Troll Killer, only works on lesser trolls, not greater trolls because their regeneration is Extreme, not Fast."
CAN the build afflict anything? The price on Variable Enhancement seems to be assuming a uniform pricing scheme. Applying it to Affliction, where different types have different costs, looks quite unbalanced. If, as the OP appeared to be suggesting, you charge +500% for the ability to Negate any advantage ≤ 50 points, it just looks unbalanced. I still wouldn't allow it, but it's not AS bad.

ISTR something like about applying partial negation too, but wasn't sure. Based on the text ("You must specify the level negated"), it seems iffy. It does have the questionable utility of the RAW version going for its allowance though.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:07 PM   #7
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
I actually used -50% myself, based on the limitations in Powers. I've used -20% to limit it to 'Only Affliction specific enhancements' for a Curse-type ability, since you can't change what the attack does, only what the result will be.
See, and that's pretty close to what I use. I think -50% might be a bit too cheap though.


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Originally Posted by kirbwarrior View Post
Same as Appearance. I added 'Very Attractive [8]' so it would act as an actual leveled trait. The only sad part about using 'Negated Advantages Only' is you can't decrease an attribute below 10/whatever the racial average is if lower.
That's actually a interesting point. Hmmm.

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
CAN the build afflict anything? The price on Variable Enhancement seems to be assuming a uniform pricing scheme. Applying it to Affliction, where different types have different costs, looks quite unbalanced. If, as the OP appeared to be suggesting, you charge +500% for the ability to Negate any advantage ≤ 50 points, it just looks unbalanced. I still wouldn't allow it, but it's not AS bad.
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As an optional rule, the GM may allow abilities built with
a Variable Enhancement – an enhancement that’s actually a
“placeholder” for any enhancements the user wants.
That "any" seems pretty definitive to me. That's the text as it appears on pg. 5 of Power-Ups 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
ISTR something like about applying partial negation too, but wasn't sure. Based on the text ("You must specify the level negated"), it seems iffy. It does have the questionable utility of the RAW version going for its allowance though.
Partial Negation is specifically allowed. See Antoni's Auras of Power article in Pyramid #3/19: Tools of the Trade - Clerics (specifically his Aura of Cowardice where it notes that it negates 5 levels of Fearlessness). Again, if it doesn't negate levels of advantage reducing it - it's just not worth the points to buy it.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:27 PM   #8
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery View Post
Has it been officially stated that leveled traits can be partially negated?
While it makes sense for some abilities, it doesn't make sense for other abilities -- for example, it's hard to see what negating a level of Unkillable 3 actually does, because unkillable 2 is really a different but related power.
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:45 PM   #9
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Ghostdancer View Post
That "any" seems pretty definitive to me. That's the text as it appears on pg. 5 of Power-Ups 4.

Partial Negation is specifically allowed. See Antoni's Auras of Power article in Pyramid #3/19: Tools of the Trade - Clerics (specifically his Aura of Cowardice where it notes that it negates 5 levels of Fearlessness). Again, if it doesn't negate levels of advantage reducing it - it's just not worth the points to buy it.
Yeah, I've read through the bit in Power-Ups 4 a few times while posting in this thread. It does look like that might be the intention, but it's far too flexible for a trait like Affliction, where so many effects are special enhancements. I'm looking at the base proposal of negating a specific 50 point advantage, and seeing a cost of 15, while your adjustment to the VE build would cost 55 and allow the negation of any advantage costing 50 or less, and the unlimited build would cost 60 and allow the adding of any of the special enhancements worth up to +50%. That just don't look right to me *shrug*

I guess the Pyramid articles are vetted as far as officialdom is concerned. I don't have a big problem with it, as it increases the utility of the Negated Advantage mod a bit. That doesn't help it when applied to non-levelled traits, unfortunately. So the trouble is with levelled traits that have irregular pricing, then?

Last edited by Not another shrubbery; 06-08-2014 at 03:44 PM. Reason: fixed a typo in the costs
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Old 06-08-2014, 02:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Affliction: Negated Advantage with Variable Enhancement

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Originally Posted by Anthony View Post
While it makes sense for some abilities, it doesn't make sense for other abilities -- for example, it's hard to see what negating a level of Unkillable 3 actually does, because unkillable 2 is really a different but related power.
It just causes you to leave a corpse on "death" instead of vanishing into the aether.
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