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Old 11-23-2014, 05:05 AM   #1
Leynok
 
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Default Brawling and Karate

So I was idly flipping through my Characters book when something occurred to me.
Why is Karate better for damage, and Brawling, given it's easier skill level better for accuracy?
I know it has to do with Karate being harder to learn than "throw a punch!" but it really seems weird to me that karate, which is for refined martial arts isn't as efficient for landing hits or parrying (unless it's a swing attack), while Brawling, because of it's easier skill level, has the vantage there. With 2 characters who are identical, aside from which unarmed skill they chose, the Brawler would be able to parry easier, and use deceptive attacks to bypass more of their active defense than the Karate fighter would, and that just seems outright bizarre to me.
I tried a quick search, but no one else seems to have noticed, or thought it strange enough to mention.
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:23 AM   #2
vicky_molokh
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

Retreat +3 vs +1.
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Old 11-23-2014, 05:27 AM   #3
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

I believe the primary advantages of Karate are the better defenses against weapons (weapon parry, superior retreat).
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Last edited by Celjabba; 11-23-2014 at 05:49 AM.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:22 AM   #4
Flyndaran
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

Karate covers a much wider group of abilities, not merely better or worse than Brawling.
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
Retreat +3 vs +1.
R.A.W. Karate allows parries against weapons, something that Brawling doesn't. Even if you allow the limited parry against thrusting attacks mentioned in other books, IIRC.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:27 AM   #6
Leynok
 
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

I'm aware of the differences between them (at least to some degree ^^;)
But I was more finding it odd that in a fight of Brawling vs Karate, of identical characters, it is Brawling that comes out with better parries and more reliable hits, when I really think that anyone with martial arts training would be more accurate and have a better defensive stance.
I guess it's something that can't be helped, given Karate does seem to be better on most accounts (unless you plan on carry heavy loads, like armor in combat often.)
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

That fully depends on what you mean by identical.
Same number of points in combat skills? Same degree of skill in punching ALONE?
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:34 AM   #8
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

The thing is when we're thinking in terms of karate ability we're normally picturing people who have a certain amount of training i.e in GURPs terms have certain amount of skill levels*. Brawling doesn't really have the equivalent real world structure. You don't get belts in brawling, you tend not to go to a dojo for brawling, etc, etc.

To get good at brawling, you tend to have fought a lot, lots of direct experience. So I think Brawling faster progression at being good at hitting things, and being good at avoiding being hit is pretty reasonable as that it what a lot of fights are.

Karate allows you do a some cool stuff (for me the +3 retreat is about the concentration on foot work and is v.effective), but it takes work to be effective with it and to leverage those options into effective combat options. Brawling is unspecialised, it's the fundamentals you lean by getting into (and winning fights). That said brawling allows you to try lots of techniques in GURPS (which is fine because they are no rules in Brawling).


*no one talks about being a blue belt in karate, you only hear about black belts!

Last edited by Tomsdad; 11-23-2014 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 11-23-2014, 07:47 AM   #9
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leynok View Post
I'm aware of the differences between them (at least to some degree ^^;)
But I was more finding it odd that in a fight of Brawling vs Karate, of identical characters, it is Brawling that comes out with better parries and more reliable hits, when I really think that anyone with martial arts training would be more accurate and have a better defensive stance.
I guess it's something that can't be helped, given Karate does seem to be better on most accounts (unless you plan on carry heavy loads, like armor in combat often.)
I think the line in bold is key here, you assuming a like for like comparison taking a Brawler the X00 hours of training vs. a Karate student with x00 hours of training where X is equal. Only as X increases it becomes a less likely comparison.

I.e Higher levels of Karate are more common than Brawling. Karate in GURPS terms is after all martial arts punching and kicking, so what I think happen is most people who are going to be fighting a lot might start with brawling, but go on to 'Karate' (in what ever form).

But that said there are just some people who have fought a lot without formal training, and well experience counts.

Also as mentioned that+3 retreat bonus is big bonus (especially if you are actually doing side step and slip), so I'd hesitate in saying brawling gives you a better defensive stance.

Even at it's worst pts disparity Brawling only enjoys a +2 to hit over karate (and so +1 to parry)
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Old 11-23-2014, 08:55 AM   #10
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Default Re: Brawling and Karate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leynok View Post
I'm aware of the differences between them (at least to some degree ^^;)
But I was more finding it odd that in a fight of Brawling vs Karate, of identical characters, it is Brawling that comes out with better parries and more reliable hits, when I really think that anyone with martial arts training would be more accurate and have a better defensive stance.
I guess it's something that can't be helped, given Karate does seem to be better on most accounts (unless you plan on carry heavy loads, like armor in combat often.)
Karate has more techniques. Karate does better damage once you've invested 8 points or more. Karate retreats better. Karate parries weapons better. Why in the world would anyone take Brawling if 4 points of it didn't do punching and kicking better than 4 points of Karate? Karate's got everything else going for it.*

*Except biting (unless perk), and the wannabe pro-wrestling techniques like Elbow Drop and Two-Handed Punch
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