[Basic] Advantage of the Week: 3D Spatial Sense/Absolute Direction

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Except you'll notice that all of a sudden north is in a different direction (assuming portals aren't oriented at precisely the same angle towards magnetic poles).

That requires they also have the perk: internal compass. Few animals with absolute direction actually use magnetic senses.
You shouldn't read more into the advantage that is actually stated.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That requires they also have the perk: internal compass. Few animals with absolute direction actually use magnetic senses.
You shouldn't read more into the advantage that is actually stated.

The text is clear: you always know where north is. Arguably you need 3D Spatial Sense for a Dyson Sphere, but...

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

The text is clear: you always know where north is. Arguably you need 3D Spatial Sense for a Dyson Sphere, but...

So it does. That's odd and makes most realistic write ups of absolute direction incompatible with Absolute Direction.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Otaku

Let me rephrase that; when an Advantage provides a bonus akin to having appropriate gear as a natural facet of the rest of that Advantage (as opposed to something extra added on), should it count towards the cost of that Advantage, or be recognized as a facet of that skill? The answer is still probably yes, but hopefully now I have phrased my question properly. XD

I dunno. Are you asking when is something an Accessory rather than a more costly Advantage?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

So it does. That's odd and makes most realistic write ups of absolute direction incompatible with Absolute Direction.

Yeah, I'd actually say that unmodified Absolute Direction can only be justified as a supernatural Advantage.

(In practice I'd probably use Absolute Direction list price for 'perfect inertial navigation', but in exotic situations that's distinctly not as good as RAW.)

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

I dunno. Are you asking when is something an Accessory rather than a more costly Advantage?

I am asking whether the fact that a bonus is being granted should be factored into the cost of the Advantage or viewed as a part of the Skill. There are a lot of Advantages built so that is does, but others don't. It might be because the bonus isn't quite as "concrete" for some things versus others. This is why I question whether or not it is worth charging points for such bonuses; if you tell me you're going to be preparing food at a level that calls for at least one Cooking roll... doesn't it make sense that Absolute Timing would give an advantage? Where does one draw the line?

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Otaku

I am asking whether the fact that a bonus is being granted should be factored into the cost of the Advantage or viewed as a part of the Skill. There are a lot of Advantages built so that is does, but others don't. It might be because the bonus isn't quite as "concrete" for some things versus others. This is why I question whether or not it is worth charging points for such bonuses; if you tell me you're going to be preparing food at a level that calls for at least one Cooking roll... doesn't it make sense that Absolute Timing would give an advantage? Where does one draw the line?

If a bonus is built into the Advantage, that means it always applies (maybe only almost always), and so should be counted as a benefit gained that adds to the trait's value. Situational bonuses could come up in so many ways that it would be impractical to try and list them all in the rules. Since they would only arise circumstantially, by definition, it wouldn't be reasonable to factor them directly into the cost the same way as explicit bonuses are. A bonus to Cooking from Absolute Timing strikes me as something like that... it doesn't seem to me that you should get a bonus to every cooking roll because of your internal clock.

[Otaku]

Originally Posted by fartrader

I suspect it's been years since you've read the rule in its entirety, so you should probably give it a quick read again. No offense intended by that, I know there are parts of the rulebook that I've not read in years. The exact description of Absolute Direction rubbed me wrong the very first time I ever read it (back in 3E) and I've always classified it as non-realistic.

Note, I've mangled your quote a bit in order to number things, so I can refer to them by number.

I don't have issue with #1 as a realistic human ability, but that's better represented by a Talent granting a bonus to the skills involved in navigation, or just plain skill itself, but that's not Absolute Direction as the ability is written in the book IMO, it's a bit more than that, which is why I say it's Cinematic, at the very least.

I don't consider #2 realistic (though that's obviously included in the ability), not the photographic memory, but the limitation.

#3 & #4 - There's a note specifically about that, it's a zero-point feature, so it's not part of Absolute Direction.

Yes, I am quoting something from a different thread, because it helped me understand some of my confusion over Absolute Direction and the bonuses it provides. I took a look at Eidetic Memory, and at either level it provides no bonus to skills, because

Originally Posted by Basic Set p.51

This trait affects recall, not comprehension, and so does not benefit skills.

So apparently Absolute Direction as written does include not just remembering paths but "comprehending them"... so might that help with a justification for a more limited form of Absolute Direction? You know which way is north and you can remember the actual paths you've taken, but that's it. There is no capacity to - for example - take knowledge of that previous path and apply it to creating a new path.

[namada]

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[Otaku]

Originally Posted by fartrader

I was coming to post all the Absolute Direction related conversation from the Cinematic/Realistic thread, because it seemed it might get more discussion here instead, but I see Otaku has (partially) ninja'd me on it already:

Thanks. I'd have done more but that thread is progressing too quickly for me to keep up, especially as we keep having bouts of bad weather and I am on a desktop. ^^'