[Basic] Advantage Of the Week: 360° Vision

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by ericthered

I think some of the 'overpricing' is due to the fact a lot of us (including me) don't actually use maps and thus usually don't use the vision rules unless someone is making a deliberate effort to come from behind.

But I agree, its not worth 5 DR in low tech, Its not even close to healing, or, closer to home Hyperspectral vision, which gives +3 to a huge range of rolls and can see in the dark.

Its true value? 10 or 15. you might be able to argue me down though.

I use maps all the time, and 360 degree vision rarely comes up. You can basically hit everything in front of you just fine. You can attack the stuff on the side hexes at a penalty, and it´s only the rear hex that gives you an issue. The biggest problem with the rear hex is that you cannot defend there at all unless you have 360 vision, which is a huge deal... unless you're in a cinematic campaign that allows such defenses if you have TBam and/or Timed Defense. Of course, it also lets you attack to the rear without making a wild swing... but so does back kick/back strike! And it lets you detect an ambush more easily, but danger sense is superior to that in every way (since it will let you detect ambushes that 360 vision will not). And it gives you +5 to detect shadowing, which is nice.

Taken all together, it might be worth 25, but I think that's stretching it, especially given that there are lots of ways to deal with the problems that 360 vision solves without spending 25 points. You fight with your back to a wall. You turn around when you want to attack. You try not to get jumped by lots of dudes (which is generally a good strategy even when you HAVE 360 vision). You keep your ears open and use some strategies like Back To The Wall to avoid being ambushed.

But GURPS can't seem to make up its mind when it comes to vision advantages. Night vision and infravision are dead cheap, but Dark Vision and 360 Vision are ridiculously expensive. I agree they should be rather expensive, but not 25 points. More like 15, I think.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by lwcamp

If I was re-writing the GURPS costs, I might go with 5 points for Peripheral Vision and 10 points for 360 Degree Vision. I wouln't quibble too much with 10 and 15 points for each, respectively, however.

If you're willing to go with non-multiples of five, I'd say to try just halving the book values.

[ericthered]

Half of me really wants to sit down and make a set of house rules of senses in gurps. And another half of me says "surely someone has done it already". For me it comes up the most when you want to create a creature that is both blind and has sonar: are they really blind? Or when I want to build a supernatural sense and I have to work with detect, which really wasn't made for such things.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by ericthered

Half of me really wants to sit down and make a set of house rules of senses in gurps. And another half of me says "surely someone has done it already". For me it comes up the most when you want to create a creature that is both blind and has sonar: are they really blind? Or when I want to build a supernatural sense and I have to work with detect, which really wasn't made for such things.

As far as sonar goes, the rules are quite explicit that Scanning Sense and Vibration Sense can be combined with Blind; unlike being able to see IR or UV, they don't mean that you're not blind, but that you can do something else that's different from seeing.

Bill Stoddard

[scc]

I think Dark Vision is a lot more powerful then people think it is. It's basically a psychic ability to see in condtions that you wouldn't be able to normally, like inside a double-blind clocking field

[DavidSev]

I'm playing a melee fighter in a DF game. Being lightly armoured I rely on not getting hit, so being stabbable from behind is a potentially fatal flaw.

When looking for things to keep me alive, Peripheral Vision constantly makes the short list, and then gets dropped again as there is so many better things to spend the 15cp on.

The Thief powerups also list Vibration Sense for 10 points, which while not as high resolution will still alert me when someone is sneaking behind me, and does a whole lot of other unrelated stuff.

Based on the cost of Vibration Sense, I'd be cautious paying 5cp for Peripheral Vision, you just don't get stabbed in the back enough.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by scc

I think Dark Vision is a lot more powerful then people think it is. It's basically a psychic ability to see in condtions that you wouldn't be able to normally, like inside a double-blind clocking field

Night Vision caps out at [9]. Now, all Dark Vision really lets you do is bridge that gap and get, effectively, Night Vision [10]. You also can't see color at that last point. That said, Night Vision [10] is not allowed, so being able to jump that game is certainly worth at least one point ("Rules Exception: Can actually buy 10 points of Night Vision [1]"), but that "unusual background" cost can be worth whatever we want. I think 1 is fair but weird (Dark Vision [11]? No). 5 would also be fair. But 15? No.

[scc]

Night Vision [10] would not help you if you where in an area where light doesn't work or if someone turn some sort of power on you that took away you're ability to see

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by scc

Night Vision [10] would not help you if you where in an area where light doesn't work or if someone turn some sort of power on you that took away you're ability to see

Strictly speaking, it would. The maximum possible darkness penalty is -10, that's "total, utter darkness." It's also the reason Night Vision stops at [9]. Dark Vision is "Remove 10 points of vision penalties caused by darkness, and an unusual background cost that lets you get around the fact that there's no light at all."

[scc]

Mailanka, we'e gettng boh off topic and into spliting hair territorry, but Night Vision [10] doesn't help you if someone blinds you, by say removing your eyes, Dark Vision does