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Old 12-06-2018, 05:47 AM   #1
Maz
 
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Default Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

I can't find a modifier like this anywhere.

So how would you price a modifier to an attack that reduces the active defense of the target?

Say a flail-like melee attack. Or a super fast piercing attack. Or an almost invisible beam. No matter the "fluff" it's a fitting modifier for many types of attack.


I feel this is somewhere in the "+20% per -1 defense" -range.

+30% would make -10 defense cost +300% and make it equal to Cosmic, but I feel Cosmic is still better. After all, there are many ways to boost defense. Especially if playing a cinematic game with Extra Effort. (Dodge and drop, Acrobatic dodge and Feverish defense alone gives +7 defense).



Other modifiers that effect active defense:

Area 2y (+50%). For ranged attack ignore dodge for most targets as you need 11+ move to be able to dodge and drop out of the zone.
Cosmic: no defense (+300%).

Deceptive attack (8 pts). 2 levels in a skill converts to -1 deceptive attack which gives -1 penalty to defend. But high skill offers more, such as longer to hit range or better targeted attacks.
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

I'd build it off:

"Deceptive attack (8 pts). 2 levels in a skill converts to -1 deceptive attack which gives -1 penalty to defend".

But give it say a 50% discount because you can't access any other benefit +2 skill could give you
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Old 12-06-2018, 09:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomsdad View Post
I'd build it off:

"Deceptive attack (8 pts). 2 levels in a skill converts to -1 deceptive attack which gives -1 penalty to defend".

But give it say a 50% discount because you can't access any other benefit +2 skill could give you

I agree that building it off of basic skill is the best approach: -1 deceptive attack is [8] points of skill, with some modifier.



On the one hand, I don't think that modifier should be -50%. Its fairly easy to convert back and forth between chance to hit and defense modifiers. On the other hand, compare it with enhanced parry (one skill) [5].
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:39 AM   #4
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

Is there any reason we couldn't use the technique design rules in Martial Arts here? Would that only be application for Melee-type Innate Attacks?
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:43 AM   #5
Maz
 
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

I understand that a deceptive-attack technique would be the most RAW solution as that's already there in the game.

The reason I wanted to go the "modifier" way is because I want it to be representative of the power not the persons trained skill.

It's also best suited as a modifier if it's for an Alternate Attack version. Where you can chose between a big showy high-damage attack or a more subtle version that penalize defense.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

I don't think there's anything preventing doing Deceptive Attack from Melee or Melee-Capable innate attacks, but I thought ranged attacks were prohibited from doing melee options like that. The closest would be the "ranged feint" of leading the target, but feints take more time (either a maneuver, or in place of an attack) compared to deceptive attack.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

Ok, thinking on the page here.



not being able to dodge an innate attack could be said to be worth +50%, the same as a level of area effect. Of course, area effect is not undodgable, it just takes some harsh prerequisites to do so.

Gurps usually places -10 as "impossible" via penalties. Active defenses tend to be low though, and trade with skill at a 2 to 1 rate, so an Impossible defense would be -5, not -10. Compare that with area effect, and +10%/level isn't a bad rate.

Accuracy is a +1 to attack in some narrow circumstances, and costs +5%/level. The two to one rate turns that into +10%/level. Now, accuracy bonuses should not be conflated with actual bonuses to attack, but its a baseline to go off of.

We've given the number +10%/level through two different methods. I would consider that to be a bare minimum. I don't know that I'd allow it in my games though.

I would really look hard at "skills as a power". There is nothing that says that skills has to be learned or picked up in the normal fashion. I have a quick play adventure which notes that one character's skill with broadsword is entirely a result of the sword he picked up an has no training with it. Its even appropriate to include a modest limitation on the skill points, though I'd be cautious with that and make it clear that its a GM call.
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Old 12-07-2018, 02:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: Innate Attack modifier: Reduced Defense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ericthered View Post
not being able to dodge an innate attack could be said to be worth +50%, the same as a level of area effect. Of course, area effect is not undodgable, it just takes some harsh prerequisites to do so.
"No active defense allowed" is in the Godlike Tricks +300% class of Cosmic modifiers on page 8 of Power-Ups 4: Enhancements. There's also Area Effect +25% for 1 yard but it only targets a single hex instead of 1+6 adjacent like 2 yards for +50% does. Being able to use your step to dodge for cover from the outer rings of a radius is apparently common enough that stopping people from doing even that is extremely valuable.
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