Dungeon Fantasy Roleplaying Game Discussion Thread

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

It's capped at 9 for Elven Wizards. Wizards get 6, Elves can buy it up three more (because Elves).]

I dont see anywhere that this lets them break six and hit nine vs just allowing non-wizards to buy magery 3.

Could you give me a page reference?


Regardless its unlikely to make it into the first iteration of DFRPG, but we will see.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by lachimba

I dont see anywhere that this lets them break six and hit nine vs just allowing non-wizards to buy magery 3.

Could you give me a page reference?


Regardless its unlikely to make it into the first iteration of DFRPG, but we will see.

Under Elven power-ups in DF 11.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by corwyn

Under Elven power-ups in DF 11.

That does not say it can go to nine.

[corwyn]

Originally Posted by lachimba

That does not say it can go to nine.

No, not explicitly, but the line "even non-wizards can do this" implies that Wizards can as well, and since Wizards can already go to six that would be an additional 3. Otherwise, allowing wizards would be redundant. That's the basis for that interpretation. I personally don't like it because it's a bit too min-maxy for my tastes and would lead to no non-elven wizards - just playing Devil's Advocate.

However, there is some precedent in plenty of profession, including Wizards, being capped on attributes before racial modifiers.

[sir_pudding]

It only matters after you have gotten a ton of points from adventuring anyway, so I didn't personally see all wizards being elves (in fact I only ever saw elf scouts). It's only minmax-y for the kind of player that plans out a 500 point character from a 250 point start.

[PK]

If a race had Magery 1, that would count as a racial modifier and would adjust the upper cap. But a power-up isn't a racial modifier; it's just something that members of that race can purchase as an optional, personal advantage. So elf wizards are still limited to Magery 6.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by PK

If a race had Magery 1, that would count as a racial modifier and would adjust the upper cap. But a power-up isn't a racial modifier; it's just something that members of that race can purchase as an optional, personal advantage. So elf wizards are still limited to Magery 6.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by PK

If a race had Magery 1, that would count as a racial modifier and would adjust the upper cap. But a power-up isn't a racial modifier; it's just something that members of that race can purchase as an optional, personal advantage. So elf wizards are still limited to Magery 6.

Someone needs to have a talk with Kromm... as his advice is exactly what I went by above.

Emphasis mine:

Originally Posted by Kromm

In particular, consider that a wizard by the book(s) can have:

• DF 1, p. 13: Up to FP 24* and Magery 6.
• DF 11, p. 36: Up to ER 20 and IQ 25.

* In DF, the +30% limit does not exist for FP! Check out the templates for casters and martial artists.

Note that this is before racial modifiers! In principle, a celestial or a high elf could have another level of IQ, and all elves can add an extra three levels of Magery. Going just with human wizards, though, we're talking about 44 energy points (plus whatever is in a power item) and effective IQ 31 for spells, giving spells at level 28-29, which means -3 to energy cost and 1/4 casting time . . . or -4 and 1/8 for a small additional investment.

Thus, I don't especially think that skill 30-ish for warriors is silly. If anything, I think it's "keeping up with the Joneses."

Originally Posted by Kromm

It's a general rule: You buy your racial abilities and then add your professional ones. They aren't exclusive; they expressly "stack." Somebody who has a racial Magery M and can add up to +N to Magery from his job template doesn't stop at M or N, but at M+N.

[PK]

Originally Posted by evileeyore

Someone needs to have a talk with Kromm... as his advice is exactly what I went by above.

Thanks for the quote. I did not realize that Kromm intended racial power-ups to break limits as well. That's definitely a DF-specific call, in which case I'll certainly defer to the series' architect.

[sir_pudding]

Again though this isn't actually a problem. You can't start with Magery 9, and if you start with Magery 6 (instead of the many other useful things a starting wizard can have; and also manage to get the elf template in there too, not sure if that is possible even) and spend all earned points on racial Magery 3, instead of spells or whatever, you aren't going to see much benefit from it for six to ten sessions. In the meantime a wizard who didn't do this can have picked up thirty spells, the force missiles power-ups, be halfway to "Ha Ha, I Can Teleport" or whatever instead.