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Old 01-05-2012, 12:28 PM   #11
Langy
 
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Default Re: Multiplicative Limitations Beyond -80%

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trachmyr View Post
This is the way I handle it... any limitations past -80% is applied against the enhancements directly, just as in Addative Modifiers. However, total "Enhancements" cannot be reduced to below 0%. Thus in the example of a 100pt ability with +100% in enhancement and -180% in limitations, would yield a 20pt ability. This allows Multiplicative modifiers to never give a "worse" value than the addative approach.
This is exactly how I handle it.
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Old 01-05-2012, 01:03 PM   #12
Humabout
 
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Default Re: Multiplicative Limitations Beyond -80%

The way someone on here (I wish I could remember so I could give credit) suggests is to multiply the sum of 1 and the enhancements by the product of all of the limitations, with no limit on the total limitaiton value. Each level of leveled limitations are treated as their own limitation.

Frex, Insubstantial with Affects Substantial (+100%) and Requires 2 FP/min (-5%/level) would work out thus: [1 + 1 (Affects Substantial)]*[1-0.05 (one level of Requires FP/min)]*[1-0.05 (the second level of Requires FP/min)] = 1.805*[80] = 144.4 points, rounded up to 145 points for Insubstantial (Affects Substantial, +100%; REquires 2 FP/Min, -10%).

I find this works very nicely when a lot of enhancements and limitations are involved, and it gives incentive to apply more than -80% worth of limitations, since so long as no single limitation exceeds -100% (I don't think any do), you never completely negate the cost of the trait.

[EDIT]
Here is a link to a discussion of the abovementioned method.
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Last edited by Humabout; 01-05-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 01-05-2012, 08:43 PM   #13
vierasmarius
 
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Default Re: Multiplicative Limitations Beyond -80%

Thanks for all the input guys! I'm not really sold on any one method yet, but it gives me a lot to think about. I'll run some comparisons when I get the chance.
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Old 01-06-2012, 04:27 AM   #14
Hai-Etlik
 
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Default Re: Multiplicative Limitations Beyond -80%

Well, I considered the problem and it seems that ideally we want a function of E and L (the sums of the enhancements and limitations respectively) where as L approaches infinity, the function approaches 0.2 and when L=0, the function equals 1+E

With a bit of noodling around, I came up with such a function. It's not pretty but it works.

For the sake of readability, you can see it at TeXRendr: http://www.texrendr.com/cgi-bin/math...%0A\end{align}

a(E,L) is the normal additive function
m(E,L) is the multiplicative function
n(E,L) is my exponential function
d is the 20% limit
k is an arbitrary constant which I think works best at about 0.6

Last edited by Hai-Etlik; 01-06-2012 at 04:32 AM.
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Old 01-06-2012, 01:25 PM   #15
Mark Skarr
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Default Re: Multiplicative Limitations Beyond -80%

In the past, I've tried letting Limitations past -80% subtract from the Enhancements, and that's been successful, but, really, I think getting the -80% from MM is good enough. It's the balance: your base cost is more than with AM, but, you don't have to take nearly as many limitations to reduce the cost.

It's worked well for me in my games.
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