Being self aware of mental disadvantages

[VariousRen]

If a character has a metal disadvantage, how aware are they of that disadvantage, and how much can they do to prevent that disadvantage from coming into play?

For example, if I have a mage who has pyromaniac (SCN 15) does he realise that learning fire spells is a bad idea, and would he have to make a self control roll to turn down the opportunity to learn fire spells? Or, on the other hand, can the mage purposefully avoid fire spells to ensure that his mental disadvantage comes up far less often?

Another example would be curiosity during a long over land trip. Would the curious PC be allowed to willingly lock themselves inside a carriage with the windows blocked in order to avoid being drawing towards investigating things as he travels?

My first instinct is that by default people are aware of their mental disadvantages and can take steps to avoid them coming up (avoiding curious things, not learning fire spells, ect). If someone wasn't aware of their mental disadvantages, they would have delusion (I don't have X disadvantage), with the severity of the delusion based on the severity of the disadvantage.

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by VariousRen

If a character has a metal disadvantage, how aware are they of that disadvantage, and how much can they do to prevent that disadvantage from coming into play?

It depends. Certainly some Disads could hardly help but be known to the character. It would be hard to have a severe Phobia and not know it (unless you have never been exposed to the stimulus for it, or everyone has it...but in the latter case it would not exactly be a Disad anymore).

Many people are aware of their Disads, though they are usually referred to as 'character flaws' or 'weaknesses' or occasionally 'strengths'. A person with Bloodlust is likely to know it if he's been in violent situations much, though he may nor may not see it as a flaw in himself. Likewise, it's more likely than not that someone with Kleptomania knows there's something unusual about himself.

Other Disads are subtler. It would perfectly possible to suffer from Sadism or Xenophobia/philia and not recognize either trait as either disadvantageous, or even unusual. Lecherousness could easily be rationalized, especially if the character is often successful in pursuit of it. Gluttony or Greed are easy to rationalize, or even not even recognize or perceive.

It would be easy to be in denial about Stubborness, and probably in character: "I am NOT stubborn, how many times do I have tell you that?! I am NOT FREAKING STUBBORN! If I've told you that once I've told you that 3051 times!"

You could have the Honesty Disad and not recognize it in yourself, or even realize that it's unusual, and in most places and times it would be seen as a virtue, at least if not combined with really bad judgement.

But it all depends on the person and the Disad.

For example, if I have a mage who has pyromaniac (SCN 15) does he realise that learning fire spells is a bad idea, and would he have to make a self control roll to turn down the opportunity to learn fire spells? Or, on the other hand, can the mage purposefully avoid fire spells to ensure that his mental disadvantage comes up far less often?

That's entirely a matter of the character. You could have a very self-aware character who sees a love of fire in himself, and he might or might not have to do a self control roll to avoid learning the spells if the chance came. This is where the 'roll playing' part comes in, there is more than one way to roll-play a Disad. You could have Pyromania but it only kicks in at point of action, that is, when there's an immediate chance to start a fire. Or you could have it 'always on'. (The GM might reasonably say the first version is worth less points.)

In the first case, yeah, the mage would have to roll for self control every time a chance to learn fire magic appeared, and then roll at a worse penalty to not use it. The later mage could refuse to learn them, because he knows that once he knows them, he'll probably end up using them when he shouldn't.

(Sort of like some alcoholics can stay out of bars relatively easily, but can't stop themselves if they get inside. Or if I know I just can't resist Sara if she comes on to me, but for whatever reason I know I should resist (one or both of us is married, she's a villainess, it could start a civil war, whatever), so I make a point of not being alone with her.)

People are not automatons, and Advantages and Disadvantages can be played in different but equally reasonable ways. Though if the player seems to be switching back and forth between the different approaches in a calculating way, it's quite reasonable to penalize the points.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

It depends. Certainly some Disads could hardly help but be known to the character. It would be hard to have a severe Phobia and not know it (unless you have never been exposed to the stimulus for it, or everyone has it...but in the latter case it would not exactly be a Disad anymore).

I disagree. There's a 1st season episode of the caper TV show "Leverage", in which the female thief character is revealed to be very phobic of horses.

But as far as she's concerned, it isn't a phobia: Horses are dangerous.

She'd compare her phobia of horses with my "phobia" of starving tigers with a history of man-eating. As far as she is concerned, her avoidance of horses is perfectly rational (that episode also uses cinematographic techniques to show how frightening and large the horse is from her point of view - a GM can use somewhat verbal techniques to help the player roleplay her character's phobia, e.g. "The horse is looking at you. As you move around the room, its eye keeps following you. Clearly it's just waiting for the right opportunity to strike").

Characters will be aware of their fears, yes, but a crucial element of a phobia is the irrationality, and characters will rationalize their fears.

[Flyndaran]

That example is a Phobia PLUS a Delusion.

[evileeyore]

Originally Posted by VariousRen

If a character has a metal disadvantage, how aware are they of that disadvantage, and how much can they do to prevent that disadvantage from coming into play?

Question part 1 - It's up to the Player.
Question part 2 - Minimal. Otherwise it's not a disadvantage and thus worth no points.

For example, if I have a mage who has pyromaniac (SCN 15) does he realise that learning fire spells is a bad idea, and would he have to make a self control roll to turn down the opportunity to learn fire spells? Or, on the other hand, can the mage purposefully avoid fire spells to ensure that his mental disadvantage comes up far less often?

In my games he'd have to check his self control to avoid wanting to learn Fire Spells... because as far as the PC is concerned, fire is awesome and it would be awesome to be able to find/create/control it! Why woudln't he want to learn Fire spells?!?!

If the Player deliberately tried to avoid fire, fire powers, and triggering the disad, I'd make them buy it off.

Another example would be curiosity during a long over land trip. Would the curious PC be allowed to willingly lock themselves inside a carriage with the windows blocked in order to avoid being drawing towards investigating things as he travels?

I don't think you understand what being curious means. The character would want to look out the window! Think about all the cool stuff he's missing out seeing!

On the other hand, no, I wouldn't be making them constantly check to want to run off investigating every 'interesting' thing they saw.... unless that was part of the adventure. But once the carriage stopped...

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That example is a Phobia PLUS a Delusion.

That's also the exact phobia/delusion that Garrett of the Garrett Files book series has. He knows horses are as smart as people, they just have everyone else fooled and hate him because 'he learned their secret'.

[Prince Charon]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

That example is a Phobia PLUS a Delusion.

Delusion is one example of a mental disad that you almost certainly don't know you have, because if you know it's not true, how is it still a delusion?

Speaking of, though, interesting disad combination: Paranoia, Nightmares, and Delusion ("I have precognitive dreams"). Works well for a villain, but could be very interesting for a hero, especially if the other players don't know he's delusional.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Prince Charon

Delusion is one example of a mental disad that you almost certainly don't know you have, because if you know it's not true, how is it still a delusion.

Reaction penalties. Seriously you can perfectly well have Delusion, know perfectly well other people consider it crazy and that you are spending a lot of time trying and mostly failing to convince them - the two problems that make a belief a disadvantage - and still do it.

A common example: you know most door to door missionaries never actually convert anybody, but if you can save just *one* soul from damnation from their false beliefs all those hours of effort and all the mockery from the unbelievers will have been worth it.....

[Johnny1A.2]

Originally Posted by Peter Knutsen

Characters will be aware of their fears, yes, but a crucial element of a phobia is the irrationality, and characters will rationalize their fears.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. For ex, I have a mild phobia about heights. In GURPS terms it's mild, but even when I'm in the grip of it, I am fully aware that it is irrational. (Heights can be genuinely dangerous, of course, but more often than not my phobia kicks in when I am quite safe).

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Johnny1A.2

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. For ex, I have a mild phobia about heights. In GURPS terms it's mild, but even when I'm in the grip of it, I am fully aware that it is irrational. (Heights can be genuinely dangerous, of course, but more often than not my phobia kicks in when I am quite safe).

Phobias are the kind of disadvantage that it's perfectly fine to avoid the trigger for. Delusions and Compulsions, not so much.

[Railstar]

I would consider this a perfect opportunity for Disadvantage Embellishment Quirks to reflect a character who is ignorant of their flaws.

Curiosity and isolation is soemthing I would require a self-control check for. What's outside? What about now? And now? Now? Part of the problem with curiosity is nearly everything becomes interesting. The very fact that you can't see outside is reason enough to check outside.

Pyromaniac wizards being cautious with spell selection would be perfectly acceptable to me just because it's interesting. The idea that a mage would specifically avoid schools of magic due to the temptations it might cause them is something you can roleplay.

Generally, controlling circumstances to avoid psychological triggers is a large part of how to manage psychological damage, so I think it is perfectly realistic.