Are there official rules for ordinary people using feet or mouths as manipulators?

[Sam Baughn]

Have there been any published (4th edition) rules for working with only toes or mouth (or indeed knees, elbows, and other body parts) on tasks which usually require hands? I know about the Hand-Free perk, but I'd like rules for people who are completely untrained at this.

[Anaraxes]

Apply penalties as for Ham-Fisted, Bad Grip, or the simple prohibitions of No Fine Manipulators. It's not that the character necessarily lacks these entirely (as with the Disadvantage). But they are choosing to operate without their normal, trained, Fine Manipulators for whatever situational reason. In practical terms, that's the same net effect as not having manipulators in the first place.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

I don't know about relevant published rules, but I can personally attest that this sort of thing is self-trainable to some extent. I used to play soccer in grade school with a kid who was born with no arms, and by the age of 10 he could peel a banana with his feet.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Anaraxes

Apply penalties as for Ham-Fisted, Bad Grip, or the simple prohibitions of No Fine Manipulators. It's not that the character necessarily lacks these entirely (as with the Disadvantage). But they are choosing to operate without their normal, trained, Fine Manipulators for whatever situational reason. In practical terms, that's the same net effect as not having manipulators in the first place.

I would define a distinct "Unusable Manipulators" apart from "No Manipulators" to reflect "I have them but they're paralyzed and I can't use them" for the same value.

Which... is probably what Quadriplegic is?

The biggest diff is drawback "I carry the weight of the limbs and they can be hit for damage" but with benefit "I have less hoops to jump through to gain their use in the future compared to someone who needs to replace them"

I'm not sure where to find penalties for stuff like "I have no fingers so I'm clamping a pen between two palms to write" (a mouth is a step above such a hand since it can grip something alone: the lower and upper jaw are each a palm!) though.

It should be possible (like wielding a sword that you hold in your armpit) but very very complicated and slow and limited.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

I don't know about relevant published rules, but I can personally attest that this sort of thing is self-trainable to some extent. I used to play soccer in grade school with a kid who was born with no arms, and by the age of 10 he could peel a banana with his feet.

I'd call that a Special Training perk, used to justify taking the feet as Foot Manipulators. That would actually be paid for as a disadvantage (-3 points for each foot), but it actually represents a combination of a disadvantage (not having an arm) with an advantage (being able to use a foot as an Extra Arm). So I think maybe it's fair.