Range penalties fix

[Kyle Aaron]

As it is, the range penalties in GURPS are crazy. Let's compare to real world performances.

Half of all Aussie Army recruits can, without practice or previous firearms' experience, after a single days' firing, achieve the minimum standard, which is: a six inch group at 220 yards, firing a Steyr assault rifle, prone, supported, in their own time. Since half of them can do it, in game terms that translates to an adjusted skill of 10. So, after adding up all the bonuses and penalties to their skill, we have to end up with 10.

The penalties/bonuses are as follows:

Range 220 yards, -13 (pB550)
Target size 6", -6 (pB550)
Weapon Accuracy of Steyr, +5 (pB281)
Scope x1.5, +1 (pB289)
Braced, +1
Aim, +2

All this adds up to -19 + 9 = -10.

However, we can assume that anyone firing on a range is not being fired at. This translates to an "Easy" task (pB345), described as "ordinary people at day-to-day jobs." It's not the "Very Easy", or "Trivial." It might only be "Very Favourable", but we'll be generous and call it "Easy," and apply +5.

So, -10 + 5 = -5.

Since the final modifier is -5, the character needs Guns - 15 to hit a six inch target at 220 yards, lying prone, supported, firing in their own time, with a Steyr rifle. Guns are a DX/easy skill, so this'd require 16 character points, that is,
Guns DX/e [16] - 15.

To achieve that skill by practice would require 16 x 200 = 3,200 hours. Eighty forty-hour weeks.

Now, obviously that's insane. Trained snipers don't do 3,200 hours of range practice in their whole careers. So, we need to make the penalties less harsh. I've been tinkering, and this is what I've come up with.

Range/size penalties: Range penalties are as follows:

• Thrown weapons, each multiple of Perception/2 yards past the first, -1
• Bows, each multiple of 2x Per yards past the first, -1
• Pistols, each multiple of Per yards past the first, -1
• Rifles, each multiple of 2x Per yards past the first, -1
• Basic size of all targets is 3ft/36” square. Each doubling or halving of the target size gives +/-1 to hit.
• Per for the purpose of firing at a target is effectively doubled if the person is themselves not under fire or threat or serious distraction, as in, at a firing range, or a sniper attacking by surprise.

In this instance, the average Per 10, DX 10 guy would have,

Target range 220yards, -10 normally, -5 while not under stress.
Target size 6", -3 normally, -1 while not under stress.

Total penalties, -6.

Weapon Accuracy of Steyr, +5 (pB281)
Scope x1.5, +1 (pB289)
Braced, +1
Aim, +2
Total bonuses, +9

Bonuses + penalties = -6 + 9 = +3.

At the default of DX-4, our guy would have an adjusted skill of 9. Some would have slightly better DX, and adjusted skills of 10 or more. This corresponds to the finding that about half of all recruits can manage the task after a day's firing, without having fired a rifle before.

With 1pt in the skill, they'd have Guns (Rifle) DX/easy [1] - 10. This would give them an adjusted skill of 13, so they could hit a a coin-sized thing at 220 yards, or get that six-inch group at 280 yards.

This works in terms of range, but I'm not sure on the target size modifier.

Thoughts?

[cmdicely]

I'd, much more simply, just double all aiming bonuses (Acc, bracing, scope, etc.) for range conditions, instead of a flat +5 modifier. For the example you give, that gives a final modifier of -1 instead of -5, and requires Guns-11, without any radical changes to the basic rules for range modifiers, etc.

[roguebfl]

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

Thoughts?

That the army's phyical testing requriment might mean the tghe asumtion of DX 10, might be a little off ? would shove the average upward toy aroun DX 12?

[Polaris]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

That the army's phyical testing requriment might mean the tghe asumtion of DX 10, might be a little off ? would shove the average upward toy aroun DX 12?

Rogue, I am a veteran myself and I have seen trainees. DX 10 for your typical recruit is about right. Military Physical Fitness standards merely insure that no one with a below average physical condition (I would say anything less than 9 in game terms) will make it through basic.

I have fired the M-16A2 (the US Standard Rifle at the time) and it is dead easy to hit anything under 200 meters with properly adjusted sights on pop-up targets (which is what the US Army does). In fact you have maybe two seconds to aim between targets and you qualify over iron sights (no scopes).

The range/speed table for GURPS is whacked at least for modern rifles.

-Polaris

[Kyle Aaron]

Originally Posted by roguebfl

That the army's phyical testing requriment might mean the tghe asumtion of DX 10, might be a little off ? would shove the average upward toy aroun DX 12?

No way. DX 12 means you have noticeably better talent than average in all physical activities. Trust me - the average grunt isn't better at football, etc than a similar bloke on Civvy Street. Anyway, that only makes a difference of 2 in skill level required, that's still 8pts required in shooting. What, half the guys have 8pts at the end of a day's shoot? Nope.

As to doubling bonuses in non-combat situations, that works, too. But I find it a bit over-generous.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Jim Bob

The penalties/bonuses are as follows:

Range 220 yards, -13 (pB550)
Target size 6", -6 (pB550)
Weapon Accuracy of Steyr, +5 (pB281)
Scope x1.5, +1 (pB289)

Nowhere is a x1.5 power scope mentioned, and given the way Telescopic Vision works, IMO you'd need at least x2 power to get a +1. It's worse than you thought.

Braced, +1
Aim, +2

All this adds up to -19 + 9 = -10.

However, you missed out All-out Attack (determined), for +1, so it balances out.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Polaris

I have fired the M-16A2 (the US Standard Rifle at the time) and it is dead easy to hit anything under 200 meters with properly adjusted sights on pop-up targets (which is what the US Army does). In fact you have maybe two seconds to aim between targets and you qualify over iron sights (no scopes).

The range/speed table for GURPS is whacked at least for modern rifles.

It is for range shooting, especially at shorter ranges. However, for field shooting and longer ranges it seems more reasonable.

Actually, I suspect it's the size modifiers that are messing things up. A 6" disk is only half the size of a standing human in the dimension that really matters - width, but has a -6 modifier. If you slap only a -2 on it for being half as big as a man the penalty goes from -10 to -6, and the recruit's skill goes from 15 to 9.

[Polaris]

Jim-Bob,

8 character points in a single day! Wow, I remember my TIs being tough, but I didn't realize how tough.... :P

-Polaris

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Polaris

Rogue, I am a veteran myself and I have seen trainees. DX 10 for your typical recruit is about right.

DX 10 is, explicitly, per Kromm the average for a person "suitable for military service"; i.e., the population segment adventurers largely come from. Average in the population may well be lower.

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by Rupert

Nowhere is a x1.5 power scope mentioned, and given the way Telescopic Vision works, IMO you'd need at least x2 power to get a +1. It's worse than you thought.

The weapon in question actually has a x1.5 scope, I believe, even if the GURPS stats don't mention it. And a x1.5 scope is a +1; x2 is +2.

And that's exactly how Telescopic Vision works.