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Old 04-19-2018, 09:25 AM   #31
jason taylor
 
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Default Re: Imperial Intelligence & The Ine Givar

The amount of trouble to gather intelligence on thousands of planets is so great that intelligence must be different in scale from what we are useful. For instance if a world ruler secretly defects we have what amounts to a mole with a whole secret service at his command. The Imperium is likely to be the one infiltrating him.

Possibly every subsector duke maintains his own secret service on his own dime.

The most important part is analysis. At that level it is extremely difficut to process even with computer assistance.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:14 AM   #32
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The amount of trouble to gather intelligence on thousands of planets is so great that intelligence must be different in scale from what we are useful. For instance if a world ruler secretly defects we have what amounts to a mole with a whole secret service at his command. The Imperium is likely to be the one infiltrating him.

Possibly every subsector duke maintains his own secret service on his own dime.

The most important part is analysis. At that level it is extremely difficut to process even with computer assistance.
1. Consider what is being done with "Big Data" today, then extrapolate to TTL 11-15 in the 3I.
2. Starship computers are not the end-all and be-all of 3I computer capabilities. They are simply the computers used on and by starships.

Would this render perfect intelligence coverage? Not in the slightest. And there is dramatic opportunity in gaps in intelligence coverage. But those gaps would be dramatically significant because of their relative scarcity, not because of their ubiquity.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:36 AM   #33
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Default Re: Imperial Intelligence & The Ine Givar

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1. Consider what is being done with "Big Data" today, then extrapolate to TTL 11-15 in the 3I.
2. Starship computers are not the end-all and be-all of 3I computer capabilities. They are simply the computers used on and by starships.

Would this render perfect intelligence coverage? Not in the slightest. And there is dramatic opportunity in gaps in intelligence coverage. But those gaps would be dramatically significant because of their relative scarcity, not because of their ubiquity.
Interepreting data is not just a matter of crunching numbers. If you trust everything to computers you just get massive GIGO. A computer can tell you that the Japanese cannot continue active operations after a few years oil embargo. It cannot tell you that they are going to attack everyone in plain sight because of it. More importantly it cannot tell you that face is important enough to make them consider doing such a thing.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:37 AM   #34
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Default Re: Imperial Intelligence & The Ine Givar

Interstellar government begins at the subsector level with the subsector duke. I would think part of the ducal duties would include keeping tabs on the worlds in his/her subsector.
So along with regular household troops like the huscarls an intelligence network would be required.
It becomes more Dune like, but that is a good thing in my book.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:49 PM   #35
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Interepreting data is not just a matter of crunching numbers. If you trust everything to computers you just get massive GIGO. A computer can tell you that the Japanese cannot continue active operations after a few years oil embargo. It cannot tell you that they are going to attack everyone in plain sight because of it. More importantly it cannot tell you that face is important enough to make them consider doing such a thing.
True. Smart systems (non-sapient AI, especially those beyond RL SotA) can help highlight that kind of information. Sapient interpolation and extrapolation will always be required.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:10 PM   #36
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IMTU Dukes control sectors, Counts sub sectors (counties) and Barons individual systems.

Each has two military chains of command terminating at their level: the Sector/ Subsector/ Colonial fleet and the Unified Armies of the Imperium. Each also has a law enforcement arm for thei political subdivision: Sector marshals, county sheriffs, system constabulary. Each likely has some level of IISS liaison.

Each of these would have an intelligence function: naval, military, criminal... the IISS would handle cultural, political, scientific and economic intelligence. Naturally there is an enormous amount of overlap. There would be liaisons and information passed from the level above and levels below. Each noble would have an office which collated and condensed this all for the noble in question... or his intelligence advisor.

Given all this I don’t know if a separate, official, civilian intelligence agency is redundant... tho any politician worth his title is going to also have an unofficial master of whisperers and his own network of informants, spies and so on.

Arch dukes and the Emperor himself likely have similar offices collating, collecting and analyzing intelligence from the sectors but information lag being what it is in the imperium they can only look at broad trends. Anything real time has to happen at the sector level or lower.

But those gaps would be dramatically significant because of their relative scarcity, not because of their ubiquity

Keep in mind the opposition is going to be doing the same thing and using the same capabilities.... and in one case is highly psionic.

Last edited by tanksoldier; 04-19-2018 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 04-19-2018, 08:39 PM   #37
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But those gaps would be dramatically significant because of their relative scarcity, not because of their ubiquity

Keep in mind the opposition is going to be doing the same thing and using the same capabilities.... and in one case is highly psionic.
Psionics can definitely help in the gathering task. Analysis, interpolation and extrapolation? "Answer uncertain. Ask again later."
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:04 AM   #38
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Psionics can definitely help in the gathering task. Analysis, interpolation and extrapolation? "Answer uncertain. Ask again later."
Proper compartmentalization can defeat psionics as well as any other interrogation tool. A more likely use would be to place a pspy within range of some known gathering of highly placed people. A High Noble court for instance. There must be security procedures to prevent that.
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:49 AM   #39
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I am about to start GMing a new 3rd Imperium campaign and my players like to have an espionage focus in their games.

My question is where can I find detailed info on the Imp. Intell. and the I.G.

I have all the 3e Traveller books & there's a bunch there on the I.G. but not on the I.I.S. (?) (Heck they are so secret that I dont even know the official name of the organisation.)

Thanks in advance for all the help.
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I was planing to set it in the Spinward Marches.
The opportunities with the Zhodani, Sword Worlds, Darrians, Fed of Arden & beyond the bordes are just to good to miss.
So is this going to be a "Flock of Wolves" situation where every PC is an agent of one (or more) different intelligence agencies, but none of them know about the others?

Edit: Ack! Sorry for the Necromancy.

I wonder how spying works for the Vargr? Is everything ad-hoc or freelance, with agencies coming and going as head spooks rise and fall, or just it just mean that agency infighting is a lot more dynamic?

Last edited by cptbutton; 04-20-2018 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:48 AM   #40
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I wonder how spying works for the Vargr? Is everything ad-hoc or freelance, with agencies coming and going as head spooks rise and fall, or just it just mean that agency infighting is a lot more dynamic?
I suspect each successful leader creates an ad hoc intelligence service from among his or her loyal followers. Since, however, loyalties shift around constantly, I imagine that at least some of those followers are experienced in tradecraft or analysis and perform essentially the same function for a parade of different successful leaders.
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