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Old 06-16-2019, 11:12 PM   #41
AlexanderHowl
 
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Default Re: Sol-1 [Infinite Worlds]

I think people are getting obsessed about inconsequential details. By 2008, you have a nearly 40 year divergence, meaning that people are different. The America that results is more prosperous and progressive, and it is because of space development and, as long as the people who become President do not interfere, that is all that matters.

When it comes to space development, 20% of the American economy would be space based (60% energy production, 20% electronics and pharmaceutical manufacturing, and 20% asteroid mining). Electronics produced in LEO suffer no atmospheric contamination or gravity defects, meaning that they are as perfect and as durable as you can make them (paradoxically, this would slow computer development, as people would expect computers to last 10 years rather than 2 years). Pharmaceuticals produced in LEO would likewise have no biological and chemical contaminants, making them cheaper and safer than pharmaceuticals produced on Earth.

Asteroid mining would be a rapidly growing business. NEAs like 433 Eros would be producing as much precious metals as all of the mines on Earth, and that would be a byproduct of transforming them into Earth-Mars cycler stations (transforming the asteroids into habitats produces reaction mass for mass drivers after everything valuable is extracted). Every cubic kilometer of empty volume produces 200,000 metric tons of precious metals (2,500 metric tons of gold alone), making it quite profitable even with a 90% drop in prices.
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Old 06-16-2019, 11:20 PM   #42
whswhs
 
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HRC was a Goldwater girl in her youth, so she may have stayed moderate Republican in such a divergence, even if her husband was a Democratic governor, and may have been able to become a Republican President. Obama could be have also been a moderate Republican in such a divergence.
At this point it seems to me that you have changed her so much that she's essentially a different person with a familiar name.
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Old 06-17-2019, 06:03 AM   #43
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While I can see HRC still becoming a Senator in Arkansas, I don't see her translating that to the Presidency. There are other politicians that may do better at this point, such as Gary Hart, Al Gore, or third tier guys like Dick Gephardt, that may do better than in your changed back ground.
I'll back you up. Hillary, while skilled and ambitious, is a low probability. But there were other women in politics in period. Perhaps either Glenn or Brown choose a female running mate like Mondale did. That woman would have been a likely nominee after the McCain presidency.
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Old 06-17-2019, 07:56 AM   #44
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I'll back you up. Hillary, while skilled and ambitious, is a low probability. But there were other women in politics in period. Perhaps either Glenn or Brown choose a female running mate like Mondale did. That woman would have been a likely nominee after the McCain presidency.
If you just want a historical person as a woman president, there are plenty of other good options. And there is no particular reason to wait until the 21st century, you could slot one in decades earlier if you wanted. May I nominate strongly pro-technology democratic congresswoman Marilyn Laird Lloyd? Though representing Oak Ridge Tennessee from the late 70s to early 90s she'd perhaps do better for a pro-nuke than pro-solar history.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:07 AM   #45
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U

A more successful Democratic Party would have been in the cards had Teddy not had the scandal and had won 1976.
I had begun to hope your political timeline was satirical but you seem to want it to be taken seriously. It will not be taken seriously by me but perhaps this is a "Weird" timeline where inexplicable and/or utterly improbable things happen.

If you're goign to launch your solar power satelites with Saturn 5s you need an earlier divergence point than 1969. Key decisions about continuing and increasing production would have to be made by then.

Even switching Kennedys from Teddy to Robert (i.e. a flower pot falls on Sirhan Sirhan's head on his way to the hotel ballroom in 68) might not be early enough. You might even need to have Oswald trip and fall down the stairs in the Texas Book Depository.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:40 AM   #46
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If you just want a historical person as a woman president, there are plenty of other good options. And there is no particular reason to wait until the 21st century, you could slot one in decades earlier if you wanted. May I nominate strongly pro-technology democratic congresswoman Marilyn Laird Lloyd? Though representing Oak Ridge Tennessee from the late 70s to early 90s she'd perhaps do better for a pro-nuke than pro-solar history.
If we're not going to worry about probability, I rather like Heinlein's historical sketch where Nichelle Nichols becomes president, opens the US/Mexican border, and revitalizes the space program.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:46 AM   #47
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I think people are getting obsessed about inconsequential details.
In an alternate history, no details are inconsequential. History is almost all details. It's the ingeniously chosen small details that make an AH appealing.
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Old 06-17-2019, 08:58 AM   #48
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The principle details are the development of space under a Teddy Kennedy administration and continued under subsequent sympathetic administrations, resulting in a progressive and prosperous America with a much higher GDP than in OTL (20% of which directly relates to space). It is an optomistic ATL where America is the economic, moral, and political leader of the world and where nations that did not cooperate with America have been left in the dustbin.

It is an ATL where the Sol System is experiencing an American Century in the 21st century. Without many of the hinderances of OTL (excessive health care costs, global climate change, social media addiction, etc.), it is an ATL where the optimism that followed the end of the Cold War did not end but, instead, built upon itself because of the intelligent policy of American political leaders. It is an ATL that is better than OTL, not due to magic but, instead, due to America living up to its potential. It is an ATL where OTL would be used as a setting for dystopian fiction.

The danger to Centrum and Homeline is the potential for agent defection. Sol-1 lives up to all the old dreams of America in Homeline, while it offer a different, and arguably better, path than Centrum. It would be everything that Infinity could do to keep American patriots from secretly giving conveyor technology to the American government of Sol-1, which is one of the many reasons why it keeps the coordinates secret. Another reason is the absurd levels of precious metals from asteroid mining, as America has gone back to the gold standard because the value of gold is less than $50 an ounce.

Last edited by AlexanderHowl; 06-17-2019 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 06-17-2019, 10:07 AM   #49
whswhs
 
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The principle details are the development of space under a Teddy Kennedy administration and continued under subsequent sympathetic administrations, resulting in a progressive and prosperous America with a much higher GDP than in OTL (20% of which directly relates to space). It is an optomistic ATL where America is the economic, moral, and political leader of the world and where nations that did not cooperate with America have been left in the dustbin.
If you want a timeline where the United States led the way to space development, fine. The point where I hang up has nothing to do with that. It's a matter of your (a) providing a 21st century with a strongly divergent history whose political leaders just happen to all be familiar faces from our own timeline (b) carefully selected to all be candidates who appeal to one specific political point of view (c) that is solidly mainstream in terms of current American politics. It makes me feel not like I'm seeing an ingenious flight of fancy but like I'm being buttonholed by a doorbell ringing politician.

When I design a campaign, I do my best not to make it preach my particular political point of view. I won't say that viewpoint never INFORMS what I come up with! But as the old Hollywood saying goes, "If you gotta message, call Western Union." My job is to entertain people who may not share my views; and indeed, I've run campaigns for decades for people who mostly DON'T share my views. As someone who, most likely, doesn't share your views, I'm telling you that I feel like your agenda is showing too much to appeal to me.

Let me offer, for example, a flight of fancy. You want a woman president to follow McCain? Instead of Clinton, how about Palin? You've said that Clinton could have a different personality (perhaps without the stunning lack of charisma that cost her two runs at the White House!); we can give Palin a personality that doesn't freeze up when she's being interviewed. You were prepared to allow Clinton to have a different party; let's have Palin be an advocate of a massive wealth redistribution program similar to what Alaska does with oil revenues, but funding by the fountain of wealth from space. Now that would be ingenious and unexpected enough to be potentially entertaining. . . .
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Old 06-17-2019, 11:15 AM   #50
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If you just want a historical person as a woman president, there are plenty of other good options. And there is no particular reason to wait until the 21st century, you could slot one in decades earlier if you wanted. May I nominate strongly pro-technology democratic congresswoman Marilyn Laird Lloyd? Though representing Oak Ridge Tennessee from the late 70s to early 90s she'd perhaps do better for a pro-nuke than pro-solar history.
Have her be Glenn's running mate. Brown could be hers, and Brown could follow McCain.
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