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Old 07-14-2018, 07:53 AM   #41
tomc
 
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Default Re: Concerns about the Gate spell.

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It's way worse than that because of gate rules. You don't need to cast then right then and there. Plus, you can have a set of gates in the middle with the rule that when you say"fire at X" the gate which will result in the most accurate trajectory to X within 15 seconds will transport the boulder.
That's really cool.

If I needed to limit it as a GM, I'd start to wonder what happens as the boulder drifts off course and hits the edge of the gate. Does it destroy the gate, kill the observers with shrapnel when it clips the edge, etc? Can you perfect it before you run out of wizards willing to try?

If it does work, what are the political ramifications? Cold wars? Superpowers? Detente? Dragon subjugation?

You could launch a decent campaign with this single idea.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:58 AM   #42
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Default Re: Concerns about the Gate spell.

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That's really cool.

If I needed to limit it as a GM, I'd start to wonder what happens as the boulder drifts off course and hits the edge of the gate. Does it destroy the gate, kill the observers with shrapnel when it clips the edge, etc? Can you perfect it before you run out of wizards willing to try?

If it does work, what are the political ramifications? Cold wars? Superpowers? Detente? Dragon subjugation?

You could launch a decent campaign with this single idea.
I'd add a "fuse" gate to eject dangerous boulders :)
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:02 PM   #43
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Default Re: Concerns about the Gate spell.

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That's really cool.

If I needed to limit it as a GM, I'd start to wonder what happens as the boulder drifts off course and hits the edge of the gate. Does it destroy the gate, kill the observers with shrapnel when it clips the edge, etc? Can you perfect it before you run out of wizards willing to try?

If it does work, what are the political ramifications? Cold wars? Superpowers? Detente? Dragon subjugation?

You could launch a decent campaign with this single idea.
Hi Tom, everyone.
What I would do is specify that anything going thru the bottom gate comes thru centered in the top one. That should fix any small misalignment problems or gentle breezes trying to move the huge bolder.

Yes, you could make a campaign with a modern day feel based on industrial magic. And it could be pretty cool. But I suspect that that should not be what TFT magic is aiming for.

Warm regards, Rick.
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:20 PM   #44
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Default Re: Concerns about the Gate spell.

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Hi Tom, everyone.
What I would do is specify that anything going thru the bottom gate comes thru centered in the top one. That should fix any small misalignment problems or gentle breezes trying to move the huge bolder.

Yes, you could make a campaign with a modern day feel based on industrial magic. And it could be pretty cool. But I suspect that that should not be what TFT magic is aiming for.

Warm regards, Rick.
In our 1980's games, one of the wizards had a keep in an asteroid which used gate-force fields to keep the air in (gate pairs occupying the same space that "reflect back" anything going through).
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Old 07-14-2018, 03:31 PM   #45
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Default Re: Concerns about the Gate spell.

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What I would do is specify that anything going thru the bottom gate comes thru centered in the top one.
I wouldn't let my players specify gate rules which are that precise, but I wouldn't tell them beforehand. ;)

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But I suspect that that should not be what TFT magic is aiming for.
True; it would be a very different world. Post Industrial (magical?) revolution.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:33 PM   #46
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Default Re: Should all spells be equally easy to learn?

I think that unless I wanted zany physics game, I would tend to rule:

* All gates can only cope with so much mass coming through them at once, Something more than about 150kg increases the chance of the gate starting to fail (either roll more times, or increase the chance of failure at some rate over 150kg). As mentioned, this could be useful for limiting their use for trade-disrupting bulk freight.

* All gates can only cope with so much passenger speed. It might be fun to allow arrows through, but anything above a speed limit both has an increased failure chance AND doesn't get passed. So no hyper-velocity boulder attacks or perpetual motion or unlimited energy generation from clever gate positions plus gravity.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:33 PM   #47
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Default Re: Which is hosed in TFT? Wizard or Hero?

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FROM MEMORY Like a wizard, except that memorizing the spell "costs" you 3 IQ points and you will always cast that spell at DX 4.

Wizards get a LOT of advantages over heroes, which include:
-- Wizards are not punished for learning talents but heroes are punished (-4 DX) for learning spells.
-- Wizards learn talents at x2 cost, heroes learn spells at x3 cost. (Exception: some talents that wizards like are x1 cost.)
-- All spells fit into one memory slot, where as most powerful talents take 2 or 3 memory.

-- Spells in a series (1 hex fire, 3 hex fire) fit into one memory slot. Talents in a series (Thief (2), Master Thief(2)) require separate memory slots.

Warm regards, Rick.
Rick raises some good points here. The wizard/hero class system made implicit by differing talent costs depending on which side of the binary divide a character really discourages individualization of characters. They should all be the same. And the improved versions of spells really ought to map, cost-wise, to their mundane counterparts instead of being freebies.
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:55 PM   #48
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Default Re: Which is hosed in TFT? Wizard or Hero?

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Rick raises some good points here. The wizard/hero class system made implicit by differing talent costs depending on which side of the binary divide a character really discourages individualization of characters. They should all be the same. And the improved versions of spells really ought to map, cost-wise, to their mundane counterparts instead of being freebies.
I like the divide. If you have magical aptitude, then magic comes easily to you, but mundane talents are hard, because your mind works differently. If you're a hero, then magic is hard and how to use it doesn't make much sense.

I don't think the costs should be the same because, to me, magic and mundane talents are very different things that don't need to follow the same rules.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:11 PM   #49
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Default Re: Which is hosed in TFT? Wizard or Hero?

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I like the divide. If you have magical aptitude, then magic comes easily to you, but mundane talents are hard, because your mind works differently. If you're a hero, then magic is hard and how to use it doesn't make much sense.

I don't think the costs should be the same because, to me, magic and mundane talents are very different things that don't need to follow the same rules.
The problem is that the divide bakes in a very particular (and peculiar) world--one in which wizards can easily learn all kinds of magic, but tying knots is just somehow harder for them than it is for big dumb fighters.

However, if TFT were to offer equal opportunity costs, then everyone gets what they want. You don't want your wizard to have a lot of mundane talents? Just don't take them! But anyone who wants to have a sword-master wizard will be able to do so without paying through the nose any more than they would for a similarly diverse yet wholly mundane swordmaster.
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Old 07-14-2018, 08:32 PM   #50
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Default Re: Which is hosed in TFT? Wizard or Hero?

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The problem is that the divide bakes in a very particular (and peculiar) world...
Very true. It's not a problem for me. I've always accepted it as how the game world works.

If they remove the restriction from the rules, then I expect lots of people will optimize their heroes with a missile spell at least, and maybe a few defensive spells, and overall we'll wind up with a less diverse array of characters.

I'd house rule it for my own game if I wanted it though.
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