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Old 09-07-2013, 10:28 PM   #11
Xplo
 
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

The rules for AIs in UT tie IQ to complexity. I suppose you could interpret those rules as allowing you to spend money to buy IQ up from the base, but I wouldn't.

What they DO do, though, is place no cap on buying CP to improve, say, skills... so the Complexity 3 AI certainly could have 40 points in every skill. Or heck, 40000 points. For which reason I strongly recommend (a) a cap on how many points you can put into an AI's skill, and (b) some GM discretion regarding what skills are available at all, and who they are available to... weapon skills might be LC3 or lower, for instance.
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Old 09-07-2013, 10:58 PM   #12
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

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Originally Posted by Langy View Post
I probably didn't make it clear in that post, but in GURPS RAW there is no limit to the amount of skill you can give an AI. If you're willing to pay for it, you can give a Complexity 3 AI an IQ and DX of 20 and 40 points in every skill.

(note: complexity in the RAW gives the base or 'racial average' IQ, not the final IQ - it can be increased just like any other trait)
These AIs are effectively Allies of the PCs' Patron, and the PCs are being created without points limits, so costs in terms of character points only help me so much. I'll examine your rules and decide what has to be done.
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Old 09-07-2013, 11:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

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Originally Posted by Xplo View Post
GM discretion regarding what skills are available at all, and who they are available to... weapon skills might be LC3 or lower, for instance.
Indeed. But since the PC in charge already has custody and use of five antimatter-tipped torpedoes in the 100-megaton range, a big orbital laser, and an LC0 starship, besides having Rank 5, and 15 points worth of Interstellar Law Enforcement Powers, I think he's past caring about the legality of a weapon-using robot.
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Old 09-08-2013, 02:46 AM   #14
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

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Originally Posted by Langy View Post
The rules for AI prices are in Ultra-Tech. They boil down to +5% cost per +1 character point programmed in. I dislike those rules, as they're probably a bit too cheap, which is why I made new ones of my own.
My problem with these rules is that it incentivises making dumb AIs with huge add-ons, since low-IQ AIs have lower base cost (and thus what these 5% actually mean).
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:16 AM   #15
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
My problem with these rules is that it incentivises making dumb AIs with huge add-ons, since low-IQ AIs have lower base cost (and thus what these 5% actually mean).
It would make sense if the highest you can raise a skill is capped by what your stat is. Perhaps IQ+5 or so. There's only so much that clever programming can make up for poor processing power.
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Old 09-08-2013, 03:52 AM   #16
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

I decided to use the limits from 3e Robots, YMMV. And just House Ruled for my setting from there.

It meant the machine complexity dictated limits to skill, eg Complexity-5 as [8] points in a skill, Comp-6 as [16], etc.

There was something about each computer having Modular Abilities (Computer Brain) but maybe that's from Transhuman Space. I went with a minimum of 4 skills @ Comp-# -1, eg a Comp-6 would have a minimum of Modular Abilities (Computer Brain) 4 (8, 8, 8, 8). Although I also opted for Limited Integration, ie the Modular skills suffer a penalty in emergencies; AI skill cost is for trained skills that do not suffer the emergency use penalty. The downloadable MA(CB) skills are akin to Apps on your mobile, some you pay for, you also have to wait for the download:D

And Dedicated computers as hard-wired systems. They can store data, appearing to “learn”, but their Skills and personality cannot be improved or changed. They lose their backup and the ability to transfer between systems (Extra Life (Copy, -20%; Requires Body, -20%) [15]; Possession (Digital, -40%) [60]); and gain Cannot Learn [-30].

PS Limits, ha! It meant that a ship's AI could easily have 20+ in every relevant skill. But then it would be more expensive than the ship, up to about SM+12. But I also decided there should be a limit to how much skill you can train into an A.I. - after all, it needed someone to train it. Opted for average skills of Stat+8 per applicable skill. And SAI having an IQ of Comp-#+3, so Comp-8 is IQ11 and Average skills 19. Or all SM+12 ships having SAI with IQ14 and Average skill 22...

It would also result in humans being replaced by cybershell AIs (Comp 7, IQ10, DX12, Average skill Stat+4). I opted for all AIs having at least Pacifism (Reluctant Killer); an AI LEO might accidentally kill you with his non-lethal sidearm but a space vessel won't even risk shooting another space vessel, just in case; it's a person so the other vessel might be too and besides, there are lots of people aboard.
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Old 09-08-2013, 04:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

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Originally Posted by vierasmarius View Post
It would make sense if the highest you can raise a skill is capped by what your stat is. Perhaps IQ+5 or so. There's only so much that clever programming can make up for poor processing power.
Oh, sure, you can do that. But since an IQ4 AI can still have DX20, this doesn't solve anything. Since a low-IQ AI is dirt-cheap to improve compared to buying a higher-IQ one.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:21 AM   #18
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xplo View Post
The rules for AIs in UT tie IQ to complexity. I suppose you could interpret those rules as allowing you to spend money to buy IQ up from the base, but I wouldn't.

What they DO do, though, is place no cap on buying CP to improve, say, skills... so the Complexity 3 AI certainly could have 40 points in every skill. Or heck, 40000 points. For which reason I strongly recommend (a) a cap on how many points you can put into an AI's skill, and (b) some GM discretion regarding what skills are available at all, and who they are available to... weapon skills might be LC3 or lower, for instance.
That tie of IQ to complexity is explicitly stated to just be the 'racial average' IQ and that AIs can buy it up or down... somewhere. Maybe it was on the forums or something, but I'm quite certain that it's been said that that was the intent.
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Old 09-08-2013, 07:29 AM   #19
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

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Originally Posted by vicky_molokh View Post
My problem with these rules is that it incentivises making dumb AIs with huge add-ons, since low-IQ AIs have lower base cost (and thus what these 5% actually mean).
Yep. That's what I dislike about them, too, which is why I tried to change that around.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:27 PM   #20
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Default Re: Skills for AIs and robots

What if you set the following variables:
  1. The highest possible skill level from programs (say 22)
  2. The highest possible complexity (Say 13 for a Genius Megacomputer)
  3. What the most "typical" computer is the setting (say a Comp 7 Personal Computer for $1000).

Base the maximum skill for programs on 1 and 2 (so Complexity +9 in my example) and the cost on 3 (so 5% of $1,000 or $500/point).
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