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Old 06-05-2013, 04:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon View Post
So, the average character in a Space campaign has no way of ever affording a ship without spending 100 points (or more) for wealth and then blowing it all on a ship...

So, how are you supposed to allow for players in a space campaign to have a ship?
If you want the PCs to be wealthy ship-owners, give the players enough points to generate wealthy ship-owners. Or just give them a ship.
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:17 AM   #12
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon View Post
Yeah, actually the Captain is an NPC, and she's going to be hiring the players to work for her, but I was thinking I should be somewhat fair and make her "pay" for the ship, but now that I think about it, especially as you guys say that a ship should be plot device anyway, that's actually somewhat cool, since I gave her 20 points in debt, so she'll need the PCs to help her make lots of money to keep the crime boss she knows from taking her ship... or worse, taking her.
If you want to pay for the ability to command her Crew, that's Rank. the level is based on how big the crew is.

Also note Han's ownership of the Falcon is one of the canonical examples of Signature Gear. Han doesn't qualify for Wealth advantage until after he marries Leia.

Luke's X-wing comes from his Rank in the rebel alliance. it just his Reputation gives him the ability to pick and choose his missions hence it seams like he gets to use it as a personal item.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:41 AM   #13
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

It seems sig.gear has really terrible CP tp $ ratio to buy big things like ships.
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Old 06-05-2013, 07:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by Ragabash Moon View Post
So, the average character in a Space campaign has no way of ever affording a ship without spending 100 points (or more) for wealth and then blowing it all on a ship...

So, how are you supposed to allow for players in a space campaign to have a ship?
Patron (6 or less, x1/2; Equipment, +100%; Minimal Intervention, -50%; Secret, -50%) [5, 8, 10, 13 or 15]
... depending on how much the spaceship cost.

A secret patron wishes for them to have a starship for its' own reasons and so arranged for them to have one at its' own expense. They don't know who it is, they don't realize they have one, they don't realize it was done and if they do manage to contact it they still have to make a reaction roll in order to get anything out of it. It interferes rarely; always indirectly, always secretly.
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Old 06-05-2013, 08:12 AM   #15
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

The trouble with owning a spaceship in GURPS is that space settings tend to treat ships like cars in outer space. Realistically, spaceships are way more expensive than that, and the GURPS prices reflect the realistic cost, not the trope.

If a character takes the usual settled lifestyle of 20% of starting wealth, then you can simply consider a spaceship to be a car in space, and ignore its price as part of the 80%. An Earthbound character of Average Wealth has a car; why shouldn't a spacer of Average Wealth have a spaceship, if they're as common as cars?


If, on the other hand, the character is a wanderer and starts with 100% of starting wealth, then simply reduce the prices of spaceships to that of cars.


Summary: spaceship prices are realistic; expecting ordinary individuals to own them is not. Change to cinematic prices or ignore them.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:18 AM   #16
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by fifiste View Post
It seems sig.gear has really terrible CP tp $ ratio to buy big things like ships.
Which why Spaceships had a large item signature gear variant.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:29 AM   #17
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
The trouble with owning a spaceship in GURPS is that space settings tend to treat ships like cars in outer space. Realistically, spaceships are way more expensive than that, and the GURPS prices reflect the realistic cost, not the trope.
...

Summary: spaceship prices are realistic; expecting ordinary individuals to own them is not. Change to cinematic prices or ignore them.
Quoted for Truth. Though I see them more like boats: If you own one just to get around you are wealthy, but there are lots of people who own cheap, rugged versions that provide their lively hood.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:31 AM   #18
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by Stormcrow View Post
The trouble with owning a spaceship in GURPS is that space settings tend to treat ships like cars in outer space. Realistically, spaceships are way more expensive than that, and the GURPS prices reflect the realistic cost, not the trope.
Realistically, spaceships as seen in rpgs (and movies and TV series, etc) do not exist and all prices for them are made up. The 10s and hundreds of millions you see some places are just someone's idea of what a ship _should_ cost. It's no more "realistic" than any other number.

Multiple editions of the Star Wars RPG have told us that the price of a used "Stock Light Freighter" is 25,000 credits. Given their commonness in the SW universe this is probably consistent with the prices of comparative items.

Chris Thrash who has worked on the ships in the Serenity RPG tells us that Mal spent the equivalent of a few 100k on hi ship and that this is quite close to what a small used cargo ship costs on 21st century Earth.

If your universe is conciev3ed as a place where small and cheap starships are common then any system that tells you they should cost 10s of millions is _wrong_ (for your universe at least).

Just remember to be consistent. If small starships are cheap then power plants and computers and weapons of that size are cheap too. Perhaps building ships in your universe is 100x easier than Gurps Spaceships seems to think. Divide all prices by 100. Nobody connected with it is likely to complain.

Go through UT and adjust prices downward there too. If a sued ship is 25k then a heavy blaster pistol won't be $5600. Same for armor and so forth. Dividing by 10 looks about right.

If you don't want to reprice everything individually tell your players that the in-game "credit" is actually worth 10 meta-game Gurps $.

So remember, prices in settings not at all like contemporary 21st century Earth are all _arbitrary_. Change what doesn't work in your game.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

If a Spaceship is merely a way for the characters to get about, then having a Patron provide one, or the GM providing one as the common 'package' for everyone is perfectly reasonable.

That does not mean that wanting to treat a Spaceship as a piece of equipment (like a sword, or a horse) for which the PC needs to pay (points and/or cash) isn't a perfectly valid and reasonable option - for which our rules (GURPS) should be able to provide us with an answer. Dismissing this option in favour or just giving them one is not very helpful.

Treating Spaceships like Cars is also not a particularly relevant argument. I can't think of a mainstream fiction setting where everyone of Average wealth owns a spaceship; A 'flyer' or 'speeder' maybe.
Spaceships are more equivalent to Planes or Yachts (larger ones)
Private shuttles might be the equivalent of helicopters, small planes or small boats, but they are still not owned by everyone.

The 'What Cost of Living Gets You' box on page 266 of Basic:Characters puts owning a small yacht into Status 3 (which is basically Very Wealthy), a private light aircraft as Status 4 (basically Filthy Rich) and an executive jet as Status 5 (basically Multimillionaire 1)!

The problem with simply using Wealth to buy a spaceship is they are expensive - not particularly surprising, and Signature Gear doesn't really help either.
I would use PK's Wealth and Signature Gear House Rules, and if a Characters spaceship is basically their home, I would have no problem with using the 80% of Starting Wealth to cover this.

In settings like Traveller, Star Wars or Firefly, where Spaceships are very common, I see no problem with simple applying a divisor to the costs. 10% of the sort of cost from a GURPS Spaceships design would make a 'tramp freighter' or small scout vessel a reasonable point purchase.
Using the 'Cheap and Used Ships' options from GURPS Spaceships 2, p27/28 is also an option. You can adjust the divisors/percentages (cheap as 20%, very cheap as 10% for instance) as above. These options have the added advantage of the ship requiring extra maintenance, which keeps the characters occupied.

The Supers/Headquarters rules suggested by the_matrix_walker are also a reasonable option if the Spaceships is more than just something provided by the GM, but not really personal equipment. The spaceship costs someone points (so it's not a freebie, and means something for the characters to look after), without it being a significant portion of their character points total.
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Old 06-05-2013, 09:57 AM   #20
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Default Re: Affording a spaceship?

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Originally Posted by David Johnston2 View Post
Which why Spaceships had a large item signature gear variant.
Quoted for truth.
Not sure why this had not made it in the early round of replies.
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