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Old 08-23-2019, 11:23 PM   #1
middlearthenthusiast
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Default Middle Earth Characters

Who has made Tolkien TFT characters? Curious to see how you statted them and what talents you chose (or created)! Looking for inspiration.

Last edited by middlearthenthusiast; 08-23-2019 at 11:24 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 08-24-2019, 12:01 AM   #2
ak_aramis
 
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Default Re: Middle Earth Characters

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Originally Posted by middlearthenthusiast View Post
Who has made Tolkien TFT characters? Curious to see how you statted them and what talents you chose (or created)! Looking for inspiration.
Metagaming did... see Dragons of Underearth.
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Old 08-24-2019, 04:45 AM   #3
Hobgoblin
 
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I think statting out Tolkien's characters and races for any game that's not terribly detailed is quite hard. An observation I've made before in regard to the wargame Hordes of the Things is that the uruks seem to be "warband" (fast, aggressive infantry) in "close-up" ("The Uruk-hai", "The Battles of the Fords of the Isen") but "hordes" (poor-quality infantry in huge numbers that keep on coming) in the big set-pieces (Helm's Deep, the Pelennor Fields, etc.) where things are more zoomed out.

Here are a few thoughts on orcs, though, to start out. The orcs of Middle Earth seem to come in two basic varieties: the uruks (the big soldier-orcs) and the smaller types. Both, though, are significantly shorter than Men. Even a "huge" uruk chieftain is only "almost" as tall as a man - and the height difference is described as having military significance on several occasions (Battles of the Fords of the Isen, Helm's Deep and The Disaster of the Gladden Fields).

A starting point, then, is probably that the uruks are about the size of a dwarf (at Helm's Deep, Gimli prefers fighting them to the Dunlanders because of the height difference) and the smaller types ("snaga") are about the size of a hobbit - which is why Sam and Frodo are able to disguise themselves as orcs in Mordor. Half-orcs, of course, are "Man-high but with goblin faces", and seem to be the most effective Isengard infantry at the Isen.

But both uruks and snaga seem to be quite dextrous, though: the tracker orc in Mordor seems to be an excellent shot, whereas Azog is "agile" and Shagrat is "quick as a snake". The big chieftain in Moria is also "quick as a striking snake". So the low-DX dwarf profile is perhaps not quite right.

There's also a complication with TFT's ST stat and what it covers. The uruks are physically small but also very strong (e.g. the "terrifying" strength in Grishnakh's arms - he runs with a hobbit under each arm and his sword is too heavy for the hobbits to use to cut their bonds).

So, to get them right, I think some exceptions to the normal rules need to be made. Perhaps we could give uruks a lower starting ST than a human to reflect their small stature, but also give them certain ST-related dispensations. For example, perhaps ST restrictions on weapon use don't apply to orcs. So an ST 7 uruk could still use a spear or a broadsword (which covers scimitars, according to ITL) or a battle-axe - as in the books. Or indeed a "horse bow" - which seems to cover the horn bows that the Mordor orcs use.

And the other much-remarked feature of Middle Earth's goblin soldiery is that they are fast-moving even though they're heavily armoured. So I'd suggest that the normal MA penalties don't apply to them. That's a huge advantage, of course, but it does reflect the books - where the heavily armoured Isengarders can run for days, and where the Moria chieftain is fast-moving and "quick as a striking snake" despite being clad from head to foot in mail.

Those are both quite a departure from the normal rules, but I think it's probably the best way to reflect the orcs as Tolkien depicted them.

IQ should be the same as humans: orcs are credited with clever but nasty inventions, and they're just as articulate as human soldiers when they speak.

So maybe an uruk should be ST 6, DX 8, IQ 8 with 6 points added anywhere and no movement penalty for armour or ST restrictions on weapons.

A snaga-type might be ST 4, DX 8, IQ 8 with 6 points added. They might have the same dispensation for armour, but might ignore the ST restrictions only for horse bows, spears and sabres (to reflect lighter scimitars).

Chieftains and bodyguards would have more points to add, obviously.

Half-orcs would just use TFT human/orc stats.

Tolkien's trolls could use normal TFT troll stats, but instead of regeneration, they should have hide that's at least the equivalent of plate armour. Some types turn to stone in sunlight.

TFT dwarves are fine for Tolkien's dwarves, but Elves should be superhuman - ST 8, DX 10 and IQ 10, with 8 points added or something like that. Maybe ST 10 too.
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Old 08-24-2019, 10:56 AM   #4
Jeff Lord
 
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Here is an interesting interpretation by David O. Miller. It's a pretty fun scenario to run through as well.

http://www.meleewizards.com/BridgeKhazadDum_2004.pdf
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:39 PM   #5
middlearthenthusiast
 
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Default Re: Middle Earth Characters

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Originally Posted by Jeff Lord View Post
Here is an interesting interpretation by David O. Miller. It's a pretty fun scenario to run through as well.

http://www.meleewizards.com/BridgeKhazadDum_2004.pdf
This is great!
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Old 08-24-2019, 06:40 PM   #6
middlearthenthusiast
 
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Default Re: Middle Earth Characters

Some good things to think about. Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Hobgoblin View Post
I think statting out Tolkien's characters and races for any game that's not terribly detailed is quite hard.
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Old 08-25-2019, 02:40 AM   #7
Chris Rice
 
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Default Re: Middle Earth Characters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Lord View Post
Here is an interesting interpretation by David O. Miller. It's a pretty fun scenario to run through as well.

http://www.meleewizards.com/BridgeKhazadDum_2004.pdf
That's a great scenario. In fact all of David's stuff is terrific.
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Old 08-25-2019, 09:25 AM   #8
larsdangly
 
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I've run or played middle earth campaigns for many years, frequently using TFT as the base system. I've found it straightforward to create plausible characters for the setting using this system, and I think it is even easier with the new edition, because it decouples the number of talents you can know from your IQ score (i.e., so you can create a wide range of skill-based characters without extraordinary stats).

It strikes me as simple enough that I'm not sure I understand where the question comes from. Can you think of a character type that is central to the setting but would be hard to create in TFT?
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Old 08-25-2019, 10:10 AM   #9
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Default Re: Middle Earth Characters

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
I've run or played middle earth campaigns for many years, frequently using TFT as the base system. I've found it straightforward to create plausible characters for the setting using this system, and I think it is even easier with the new edition, because it decouples the number of talents you can know from your IQ score (i.e., so you can create a wide range of skill-based characters without extraordinary stats).

It strikes me as simple enough that I'm not sure I understand where the question comes from. Can you think of a character type that is central to the setting but would be hard to create in TFT?
I’m brand new to TFT and curious to see a few things:

1. How you stat each race. Ie how much stronger are numenoreans than average humans, should elves have higher DX on average, etc.

2. Do you allow players to make wizards? If so, how do you keep it within Middle Earth bounds (particularly in the Third Age)

3. Do you incorporate any elements from other games like The One Ring?
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Old 08-25-2019, 11:35 AM   #10
Hobgoblin
 
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Default Re: Middle Earth Characters

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Originally Posted by larsdangly View Post
It strikes me as simple enough that I'm not sure I understand where the question comes from. Can you think of a character type that is central to the setting but would be hard to create in TFT?
I do think Tolkien's orcs are quite hard to get right in TFT as written - hence my suggestions above.

This the problem. Orcs are unusually strong and hardy ("they do not tire"; "heavily armed ... trained to move at great speeds for long distances") and they use heavy weapons and powerful bows (either composite bows made of horn or longbows made of yew - both weapons with big draw weights in real life).

But at the same time, they're usually killed in a single stroke (e.g. the Great Goblin, the chieftain in Moria, the orc guards killed by Ugluk in Rohan, Grishnakh, Snaga, the uruk shot by the tracker, etc.). And even the big ones are sufficiently small compared with Men that it makes a difference on the battlefield. In D&D terms, orcs have low HP but high STR.

So, as TFT uses ST for both HP and STR, this is a bit tricky. Without bending the rules (as I suggest above), the Mordor and Isengard uruks have to have at least ST11 (broadswords/scimitars, long bows) and 5 points of armour (mail, large shields). So then we're looking at 16 points of damage to drop them in a single shot - which is a bit of a tall order, especially as it happens an awful lot in the books.

On top of that, orcs are decent shots too (see Isildur, Balin, Boromir and lots of Shagrat and Gorbag's soldiers), which entails decent DX - even decent adjusted DX. And they're extremely fast-moving even in their "heavy mail" (which, it's implied in The Battle of the Fords of the Isen, is too heavy for the much bigger Dunlanders to use).

I should say that I don't think accurately representing orcs is a problem unique to TFT; most wargames struggle to represent extremely fast-moving, heavily armoured but undersized heavy infantry armed with long or composite bows, as there's no historical precedent - or not that I can think of, at least!

I should also say that I really like TFT's use of the ST stat for both HP and STR in general. It always strikes me as odd when you end up with an RPG character who has maximum starting STR but minimum HP - 18 vs 1 or whatever. TFT sidesteps that problem admirably.
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